A ? for you Cal PAIR removal folks
08-17-2009 | 08:24 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
A ? for you Cal PAIR removal folks
My apologies, I know that PAIR removal threads abound, but I haven't found an answer to this question, so if you don't mind .....
I got all of the PAIR plumbing off of my '98 Cal model, and now it pops and backfires (afterburns?). Now some people like this, but I'm not one of 'em. I'm thinking that the 49 state model doesn't do this, and I'm wondering what they've got that my bike doesn't? Is it possible to get rid of the popping?
Thanks for the help!
BTW, I finally got my bike out for a weekend ride ... the hottest weekend of the summer! Yow! Fun, but sweaty!!
I got all of the PAIR plumbing off of my '98 Cal model, and now it pops and backfires (afterburns?). Now some people like this, but I'm not one of 'em. I'm thinking that the 49 state model doesn't do this, and I'm wondering what they've got that my bike doesn't? Is it possible to get rid of the popping?
Thanks for the help!
BTW, I finally got my bike out for a weekend ride ... the hottest weekend of the summer! Yow! Fun, but sweaty!!
08-17-2009 | 10:08 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
I flipped the reed valve and put a block off plate over it.
I also took all the other hoses/valves off, leaving the float bowls vented. I've wondered if it's a good idea to put a filter on those hoses.
I also took all the other hoses/valves off, leaving the float bowls vented. I've wondered if it's a good idea to put a filter on those hoses.
Last edited by chickenstrip; 08-17-2009 at 10:45 AM.
08-17-2009 | 01:46 PM
#4
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
well Greg has a article on it on his site: http://superhawk996.net/
I think usually you either flip the stopper, or put on a block off plate..
I think usually you either flip the stopper, or put on a block off plate..
08-17-2009 | 03:00 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Any California model riders out there experience the exhaust popping after PAIR removal? Did you find a solution?
I think that flipping the reed valve and putting a block off plate over it is fine. Am I wrong?
I think that flipping the reed valve and putting a block off plate over it is fine. Am I wrong?
08-20-2009 | 08:16 AM
#7
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
If you have the block off plates, I'd try removing the reed valve entirely, or not using the block off plates.
Also IIRC every thing that would have had vacuum should now be capped.
08-20-2009 | 08:43 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Removing PAIR is supposed to stop the poping on decel.. That makes me think your PAIR is still letting air into your exhaust.
If you have the block off plates, I'd try removing the reed valve entirely, or not using the block off plates.
Also IIRC every thing that would have had vacuum should now be capped.
If you have the block off plates, I'd try removing the reed valve entirely, or not using the block off plates.
Also IIRC every thing that would have had vacuum should now be capped.
Yeah, I've had same idea about air getting into the exhaust .... and I guess the only place for that to happen is where the reeds are located. I've screwed the reeds closed, and I would think that the gasket around the reeds are necessary for creating a good seal. On top of that, the block plates are solid (as opposed to the OEM covers with the hose fitting).But I guess it can't hurt to try removing them completely.
Re: capping, from what I see on Greg's thread and elsewhere, the hoses coming off of the float bowls are to be vented (allowing the bowls to fill with fuel), and they're the only thing I left uncapped ... unless something came undone. I'll have another look.
Thanks for the additional help, lazn!
08-22-2009 | 09:33 AM
#9
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 224
From: Hills of Kentucky
Hey Chickenstrip...I haven't gotten any block off plates yet and am still using the original OEM covers with vac caps on them. I, too, have a CA bike and I pulled all the emissions crap off as well as the PAIR and have no popping on decel. The carb vent tubes don't really need a filter on 'em. The "other 49" bike carb vent tubes are just bound together inside the carb rack and that can cause a prob. That's why folks pull those out and let 'em hang downward (Hawkrider's carb fix)...so they'll drain properly when needed. Good luck. tyronne
08-22-2009 | 09:54 AM
#10
Member
Squid
Squid
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 47
Check small vacuum line on carb. I missed it at first. I plugged mine and it helped. Still pops but not as much.
Here's a picture. Viewed from right side of bike. Not best quality but you can see what to check. Small bit of hose with yellow plug.
Here's a picture. Viewed from right side of bike. Not best quality but you can see what to check. Small bit of hose with yellow plug.
08-22-2009 | 11:47 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Thanks for the feedback, tyronne. And thanks for pointing to that potential leak, fpalbrecht. I'm a bit stumped, I'm figuring now that maybe the carbs aren't properly seated (though they appear to be), or perhaps the seal for the PAIR system that's between the valve cover and cylinder head isn't sealing.
Anyway, I'm about to dive into it once again. Yeehaw!
Anyway, I'm about to dive into it once again. Yeehaw!
08-22-2009 | 04:42 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Got it!
Fortunately it was easier than I thought it might be. Once I took off the air box I discovered one last hose that was not capped.
It's back together and the carbs are synced ... going for a ride tomorrow.
It's back together and the carbs are synced ... going for a ride tomorrow.
08-24-2009 | 11:05 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
I got out for a day ride and the bike is strong, both from a standing start and in a roll-on.
It still 'farts' a bit, but nothing bad. I'm figuring it's from the the small amt of excess air that gets caught up in the capped hoses, maybe the passage in the cylinder head below where the PAIR reed valve. Speculations anyone?
It still 'farts' a bit, but nothing bad. I'm figuring it's from the the small amt of excess air that gets caught up in the capped hoses, maybe the passage in the cylinder head below where the PAIR reed valve. Speculations anyone?
08-24-2009 | 12:17 PM
#14
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 433
From: Los Angeles & Winston Salem
??
Hi Chickenstrip....Sorry for the slow reply.
I never had any issues with my bike popping or backfiring ever really? Well at least when just riding it around. Only time it would backfire was when I made it! Tunnels and stuff kill swich of kill switch on bang.
Only issues I really had with my bike was stalling! at very slow speed or when pulling up to stop....Most people get round this by just raising the idle speed, which I really did not like. Once I had removed all of the smog correctly my bike ran really smooth, no more stalling issues ever, and for some reason even gain a couple of extra miles on the mpg!
Do you have stock cans or aftermarket? Most aftermarket cans have a lot less back pressure than stock cans. I have noticed that superhawks are very sensitive to carb jetting and installing cans can cause a lot of issues?
I'm sure you know how it works. if you are running rich somewhere in the rev range you close the throttle at a certain rev's and Bang go's all the unburnt fuel in the exhaust systems.
I don't think it is a real bad problem. Hell I have been backfiring carb bikes for 30 years and never had one blow up on me yet?
I never had any issues with my bike popping or backfiring ever really? Well at least when just riding it around. Only time it would backfire was when I made it! Tunnels and stuff kill swich of kill switch on bang.
Only issues I really had with my bike was stalling! at very slow speed or when pulling up to stop....Most people get round this by just raising the idle speed, which I really did not like. Once I had removed all of the smog correctly my bike ran really smooth, no more stalling issues ever, and for some reason even gain a couple of extra miles on the mpg!
Do you have stock cans or aftermarket? Most aftermarket cans have a lot less back pressure than stock cans. I have noticed that superhawks are very sensitive to carb jetting and installing cans can cause a lot of issues?
I'm sure you know how it works. if you are running rich somewhere in the rev range you close the throttle at a certain rev's and Bang go's all the unburnt fuel in the exhaust systems.
I don't think it is a real bad problem. Hell I have been backfiring carb bikes for 30 years and never had one blow up on me yet?
08-24-2009 | 01:13 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Hey speedkelly .... my bike's all stock, so it's not an issue of mods.
I'm wondering, did you cap your hoses close to the source? I left the two coming off the front carb as-is, and capped the T-joint with. One, out of laziness (not wanting to look for a cap of the right size), and two, because I want easy access to the one hose for carb syncing. Would clipping all hoses closer to their origin, or capping at the source cut out the popping?
It's not a big deal - the bike is running strong - more a curiosity.
I'm wondering, did you cap your hoses close to the source? I left the two coming off the front carb as-is, and capped the T-joint with. One, out of laziness (not wanting to look for a cap of the right size), and two, because I want easy access to the one hose for carb syncing. Would clipping all hoses closer to their origin, or capping at the source cut out the popping?
It's not a big deal - the bike is running strong - more a curiosity.
08-24-2009 | 02:11 PM
#16
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I'd hazard a guess and say that the popping isn't related to the PAIR crap... But more likely to be due to the jetting of the carbs... Some coughing at some RPM's is unavoidble on a carbed bike... It is physicly impossible to get it running flawless through the entire range, there will always be some joints and imperfections... And no bike manufacturer can get the bike set up for the entire world at different height over sea level and humidity/temp... So stock isn't always optimal... Usually stock is made to be slightly rich to keep the bike "safe" for all conditions...
So I'm guessing you are running a bit rich, which should give you some carb farts when you close the throttle fast... If you close it smoothly it doesn't pop/fart right?
If so, completely normal... Might get better mileage from being set up on a dyno... But completely optional...
So I'm guessing you are running a bit rich, which should give you some carb farts when you close the throttle fast... If you close it smoothly it doesn't pop/fart right?
If so, completely normal... Might get better mileage from being set up on a dyno... But completely optional...
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
