Wheel question
01-27-2010 | 08:23 PM
#1
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Wheel question
So.. will a cbr 600rr
front wheel work with the rc51 swap??
Maybe I can persuade one of y'all that has a 929/954 or rc51 front wheel to grab a dial caliper and take an outside to outside measurement of the front disc's?
The stock one on my hawk is 5.312", My rotors are 0.177" so Center to center 5.135", I can probably shim the calipers each side if it's not some crazy amount.
Thanks all.
Dave
front wheel work with the rc51 swap??Maybe I can persuade one of y'all that has a 929/954 or rc51 front wheel to grab a dial caliper and take an outside to outside measurement of the front disc's?
The stock one on my hawk is 5.312", My rotors are 0.177" so Center to center 5.135", I can probably shim the calipers each side if it's not some crazy amount.
Thanks all.
Dave
01-27-2010 | 09:15 PM
#2
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Well I couldn't find my caliper, I think I might have left it at a friend's place.
But I grabbed a measuring tape and my outside to outside rotor measurement on my CBR1000RR wheel is 5 9/16" so ~5.563" however I think this is about 1mm wider than the 929/954 wheel. Not enough to really matter, but enough to measure. I think this because the 1000rr's triple is 2mm wider overall.
But I grabbed a measuring tape and my outside to outside rotor measurement on my CBR1000RR wheel is 5 9/16" so ~5.563" however I think this is about 1mm wider than the 929/954 wheel. Not enough to really matter, but enough to measure. I think this because the 1000rr's triple is 2mm wider overall.
01-28-2010 | 05:40 AM
#6
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Thanks guy's, I think we'll have to have a ref call the ball on wether its ok to use digital vs dial calipers lol.
The diff in axle size can probably be addressed with a bearing swap, regardless of wheel used, the real question at hand is that measurement. So.. I'm thinking Lazn, that the 0.251 difference from the stock hawk rim may be too much to allow the use of my stock hawk rim, however I have "shimmed" rear sprockets on harley's that much (0.125") using a method with hardened shoulder bolts, by counter sinking the holes in the rim to allow the shoulder bolt to 1) have enough thread engagement to be safe and 2) where as the shoulder portion passes through the rotor and shim holes engaging the "alignment" counter bored mounting holes in the rim, ya follow?
Hmmm.. crap, the rotors on the stock rim would need to be changed out, too small, damn, and there's probably none of the larger 320mm with the same bolt pattern.. gettin trixey now. My kingdom for a simple solution...
The diff in axle size can probably be addressed with a bearing swap, regardless of wheel used, the real question at hand is that measurement. So.. I'm thinking Lazn, that the 0.251 difference from the stock hawk rim may be too much to allow the use of my stock hawk rim, however I have "shimmed" rear sprockets on harley's that much (0.125") using a method with hardened shoulder bolts, by counter sinking the holes in the rim to allow the shoulder bolt to 1) have enough thread engagement to be safe and 2) where as the shoulder portion passes through the rotor and shim holes engaging the "alignment" counter bored mounting holes in the rim, ya follow?
Hmmm.. crap, the rotors on the stock rim would need to be changed out, too small, damn, and there's probably none of the larger 320mm with the same bolt pattern.. gettin trixey now. My kingdom for a simple solution...
Last edited by stebbdt; 01-28-2010 at 06:00 AM. Reason: had an epiphany
01-28-2010 | 05:47 AM
#7
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Plus, the reason I'm asking about the 600rr rim is they are readily available on the 'bay, at a very reasonable price point. Think I'll hit the cbr forum and see if I can get one those guys to grab that same measurement for me.. Unless someone on here also has a 600rr/F3/f4 etc. that they can pull it from for me.? Mucho Thanks all.
Dave
Dave
01-28-2010 | 06:24 AM
#8
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Here is some info (un-confirmed) I grabbed from another forum, can anyone confirm/debunk on any of these?
Yes, 06-07 (probably 08 too) CBR1000RR rotors will fit on the RC51 rim.
929 (00-01)....................330mm
954 (02-03)....................330mm
RC51 (00-06)..................320mm
600rr (03-08)..................310mm
1000rr (04-05)................310mm
1000rr (06-07)................320mm
Offsets and bolt patterns are the same. The only differences are rotor thinkness and rotor diameter.
Yes, 06-07 (probably 08 too) CBR1000RR rotors will fit on the RC51 rim.
929 (00-01)....................330mm
954 (02-03)....................330mm
RC51 (00-06)..................320mm
600rr (03-08)..................310mm
1000rr (04-05)................310mm
1000rr (06-07)................320mm
Offsets and bolt patterns are the same. The only differences are rotor thinkness and rotor diameter.
01-28-2010 | 06:56 AM
#9
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
And, from the F4 rotor thread:
Yes, the 97-98 CBR1100XX have the same mounting pattern as the stock VTR wheel. I didn't check the offset, all I wanted was rotors that lined up correctly with the Showa inverted forks I'm using, which they do. I can measure them if it would help.
__________________
Jamie Daugherty
Mikstr said:
alright, did some research and it seems the 1100XX rotors are said to be identical to RC45 rotors and thus very close to VTR except for the following:
- thickness (thicker; 5.5 mm vs 5.0)
- diameter: 310 mm vs 296 on VTR
- offset: 21.1 mm vs 17.2 on VTR
So.. the offset diff is 3.1mm or 0.122'' close enough to the 0.1255" (0.0035") to not need to "shim" or any other BS to mount CBR1100XX rotors to the stock hawk rim, hmm.. I think I also saw where Jamie addressed the 10mm diff in od of the rotors as not really an issue?? 310mm as opposed to the Rc51 320mm not sure on that though, at 0.393" seems quite a bit.
Probably could make a new set of the RC51 caliper mounting brackets to cover that though... man.. I think I might be able to pull this off..
So.. stock hawk axle 20mm Rc51 axle 22mm so.. Jamie, if you please, what bearings did you use to convert to the 22mm??
Yes, the 97-98 CBR1100XX have the same mounting pattern as the stock VTR wheel. I didn't check the offset, all I wanted was rotors that lined up correctly with the Showa inverted forks I'm using, which they do. I can measure them if it would help.
__________________
Jamie Daugherty
Mikstr said:
alright, did some research and it seems the 1100XX rotors are said to be identical to RC45 rotors and thus very close to VTR except for the following:
- thickness (thicker; 5.5 mm vs 5.0)
- diameter: 310 mm vs 296 on VTR
- offset: 21.1 mm vs 17.2 on VTR
So.. the offset diff is 3.1mm or 0.122'' close enough to the 0.1255" (0.0035") to not need to "shim" or any other BS to mount CBR1100XX rotors to the stock hawk rim, hmm.. I think I also saw where Jamie addressed the 10mm diff in od of the rotors as not really an issue?? 310mm as opposed to the Rc51 320mm not sure on that though, at 0.393" seems quite a bit.
Probably could make a new set of the RC51 caliper mounting brackets to cover that though... man.. I think I might be able to pull this off..
So.. stock hawk axle 20mm Rc51 axle 22mm so.. Jamie, if you please, what bearings did you use to convert to the 22mm??
Last edited by stebbdt; 01-28-2010 at 07:34 AM.
01-28-2010 | 08:22 AM
#10
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Found an old post from Jamie, 'course he's used the gixxer stuff, however still applies to changing the stock rim to take 22mm stuff.
JamieDaugherty
12-05-2008, 06:43 PM
Yes, you have to use the GSXR axle because the lower portion of the forks cannot be changed. It's larger than the VTR axle so the wheel bearings must be replaced. I don't remember the bearing number, but it's the same OD (obviously) and 9mm wide. What I do remember is that the spacers on either side need to be 12mm thick. You also need to make a new center spacer that fits inside the wheel between the bearings (many folks don't even know this part exists). The spacer is larger diameter to accomodate the larger axle and this causes a bit of problems on the one side. You have to remove some of the material behind the bearing seat so this part will fit. Here are a couple of photos that might help. The first is the larger center spacer and shows the material that interferes. The second is the new wheel bearings and CBRXX rotors installed. One note: the forks I used are supposed to have Ø320mm rotor but the CBRXX ones are only Ø310mm. That will cause me some issues with pad wear long term, so ultimately I will need to figure something out. Most GSXR's use Ø310mm rotors, I just happened to get a set with the larger size (go figure).
http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/temp/DSC08849-1.JPG
http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/temp/DSC08875-1.JPG
JamieDaugherty
12-05-2008, 06:43 PM
Yes, you have to use the GSXR axle because the lower portion of the forks cannot be changed. It's larger than the VTR axle so the wheel bearings must be replaced. I don't remember the bearing number, but it's the same OD (obviously) and 9mm wide. What I do remember is that the spacers on either side need to be 12mm thick. You also need to make a new center spacer that fits inside the wheel between the bearings (many folks don't even know this part exists). The spacer is larger diameter to accomodate the larger axle and this causes a bit of problems on the one side. You have to remove some of the material behind the bearing seat so this part will fit. Here are a couple of photos that might help. The first is the larger center spacer and shows the material that interferes. The second is the new wheel bearings and CBRXX rotors installed. One note: the forks I used are supposed to have Ø320mm rotor but the CBRXX ones are only Ø310mm. That will cause me some issues with pad wear long term, so ultimately I will need to figure something out. Most GSXR's use Ø310mm rotors, I just happened to get a set with the larger size (go figure).
http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/temp/DSC08849-1.JPG
http://www.daughertymotorsports.com/temp/DSC08875-1.JPG
01-28-2010 | 08:34 AM
#11
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Hahaha, and this from yet another forum:
It is my understanding that the 929/954/1000 rims are all interchangable. The RC51 has a different axle diameter (22mm vs 25mm on the 929/954/1000), so you'll need to install RC51 wheel bearings and have custom axle spacers made if you want to use a 929/954/1000 wheel in the RC51 forks.
It also looks like the 600RR (03-06) also used a 22mm axle just like the RC51. In fact, the Honda part numbers are the same between the 600RR and RC51 for the wheel bearings and inner spacers. I've read of one guy putting an RC51 front wheel on his 600RR, so it's definitely doable.
So.. it would seem that you can use the 03-06 600rr rim with rc51 rotors if this info is accurate.
Still.. would like to keep the stocker if possible.. probably try using Jamie's 22mm set-up with 97-98 CBR1100xx rotors and custom make the caliper mounts to work with the 310mm rotors, or check on 320mm to fit, sounds like they went to 320mm on the 99 and up cbr1100xx but guessing that the bolt pattern changed at that point to accommodate.
Hmmm.. trixier and trixier.
It is my understanding that the 929/954/1000 rims are all interchangable. The RC51 has a different axle diameter (22mm vs 25mm on the 929/954/1000), so you'll need to install RC51 wheel bearings and have custom axle spacers made if you want to use a 929/954/1000 wheel in the RC51 forks.
It also looks like the 600RR (03-06) also used a 22mm axle just like the RC51. In fact, the Honda part numbers are the same between the 600RR and RC51 for the wheel bearings and inner spacers. I've read of one guy putting an RC51 front wheel on his 600RR, so it's definitely doable.
So.. it would seem that you can use the 03-06 600rr rim with rc51 rotors if this info is accurate.
Still.. would like to keep the stocker if possible.. probably try using Jamie's 22mm set-up with 97-98 CBR1100xx rotors and custom make the caliper mounts to work with the 310mm rotors, or check on 320mm to fit, sounds like they went to 320mm on the 99 and up cbr1100xx but guessing that the bolt pattern changed at that point to accommodate.
Hmmm.. trixier and trixier.
Last edited by stebbdt; 01-28-2010 at 08:45 AM.
01-28-2010 | 08:55 AM
#12
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
In that case this might interest you:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...76&postcount=8
Not sure if F3 rotors bolt right up to our wheel, but I kinda think they do
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...76&postcount=8
Not sure if F3 rotors bolt right up to our wheel, but I kinda think they do
01-28-2010 | 09:04 AM
#13
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,216
From: Westerly, RI
Dave, call Alex at All ***** Racing. He was very helpful in helping me find the steering head bearings for my conversion. I have no doubt that he can help you figure out which bearings you will need, he may even have a center spacer that fits your needs.
Alex Geiger
All ***** Racing
610-473-0505
Alex Geiger
All ***** Racing
610-473-0505
01-28-2010 | 09:52 AM
#16
Thread Starter
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Ah, great info Lazn, thanks.
Mikster said:just checked the EBC catalogue and found the oversize (320 mm) rotors they (used to?) offer for the CBR600F3. The part numbers are MD709LD (left) and MD709RD (right). They used to offer caliper adaptors but I never found any info in their 2006 catalogue... end
stebbdt said:
I think the F3 model years rims will be different than later models though, but worth checking on over size rotors with them.
Thanks
Mikster said:just checked the EBC catalogue and found the oversize (320 mm) rotors they (used to?) offer for the CBR600F3. The part numbers are MD709LD (left) and MD709RD (right). They used to offer caliper adaptors but I never found any info in their 2006 catalogue... end
stebbdt said:
I think the F3 model years rims will be different than later models though, but worth checking on over size rotors with them.
Thanks
01-28-2010 | 10:47 AM
#17
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,216
From: Westerly, RI
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
