Whats The Deal With The CCT'S
02-20-2013 | 08:14 PM
#31
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Senior Member
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 107
From: Columbus Ohio
It's both opinion and actual observation.
The reality is, unless you did a metallurgic inspection on your old ones, you really have no idea what there condition was, you just know they had not failed yet.. Which is good and a valid observation.
It has been observed and reported many, many times, ACCT's failing causing minor damage to massive engine destruction.
Based on the many reports of ACCT failure, I do not believe we know why some fail in so few miles, a larger amount fail in the 18-20k range, and some make it to 67,285 miles with no indication of anything wrong with them.
That unknown failure point is the driving fact in recommending replacement with a manual CCT of which the only known failure point, is the installation.
As VTRsurfer said.. that... is just my opinion based on my observations and experience.
All Done now 
The reality is, unless you did a metallurgic inspection on your old ones, you really have no idea what there condition was, you just know they had not failed yet.. Which is good and a valid observation.
It has been observed and reported many, many times, ACCT's failing causing minor damage to massive engine destruction.
Based on the many reports of ACCT failure, I do not believe we know why some fail in so few miles, a larger amount fail in the 18-20k range, and some make it to 67,285 miles with no indication of anything wrong with them.
That unknown failure point is the driving fact in recommending replacement with a manual CCT of which the only known failure point, is the installation.
As VTRsurfer said.. that... is just my opinion based on my observations and experience.
All Done now 
10-23-2013 | 01:38 PM
#34
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MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Are you more curious about how the system works in general, or just want basics to diagnose your particular bike? There is little to no warning noise when the CCT goes out on the design of this motor. You have maybe 10 seconds in most cases to react to what is a metal rattling noise before the timing skips and you do damage. In other words, if you don't know the history of your bike, it is wise to just bite the bullet and replace the CCT's and not worry about their condition. There has been no reliable way to determine whether or not a CCT will fail until it has already broken, so there is no real diagnosis.
On inline-4 bikes, there is a partial "warning noise" which is a similar metallic rattling that lets you know the CCT must be replaced. The catch here is that the CCT has already instantaneously failed just like on our v-twins, but because of the design of the motor it is not catastrophic. On an inline 4 bike you have one cam chain with four cylinders keeping relatively consistent pressure on it, so it is much harder for the chain to skip teeth. On the v-twin you have one cam chain per cylinder so you get much more erratic pulsing on the chain, and there is basically no protection from the chain skipping. It's this aspect that makes this failure so lethal to our bikes. These cct's most often fail when the spring that keeps tension inside the CCT brakes. Unless you can tell when spring steel is about to brake by looking at it, there is no way of really knowing how close to it's fatigue limit it is.
With both you'll get kind of a shaking and metallic clacking as the chain starts slapping around, but on the Superhawk once the chain skips and valves start hitting the cylinder heads it will be loud and you'll know. Hope this helps
On inline-4 bikes, there is a partial "warning noise" which is a similar metallic rattling that lets you know the CCT must be replaced. The catch here is that the CCT has already instantaneously failed just like on our v-twins, but because of the design of the motor it is not catastrophic. On an inline 4 bike you have one cam chain with four cylinders keeping relatively consistent pressure on it, so it is much harder for the chain to skip teeth. On the v-twin you have one cam chain per cylinder so you get much more erratic pulsing on the chain, and there is basically no protection from the chain skipping. It's this aspect that makes this failure so lethal to our bikes. These cct's most often fail when the spring that keeps tension inside the CCT brakes. Unless you can tell when spring steel is about to brake by looking at it, there is no way of really knowing how close to it's fatigue limit it is.
With both you'll get kind of a shaking and metallic clacking as the chain starts slapping around, but on the Superhawk once the chain skips and valves start hitting the cylinder heads it will be loud and you'll know. Hope this helps
10-23-2013 | 01:44 PM
#35
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SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,707
From: Essex, UK
10-23-2013 | 02:02 PM
#36
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Squid
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 38
From: Kansas
Thanks guys! I have a fairly good grasp of how they work but I was wondering if there were any warning symptoms such as a strange noise.
I have a 2011 VW GTI and there are rare instances with that engine when the CCT will fail on start-up and cause massive engine failure... It sounds much more common on this bike! I'm just a lucky guy that picked two vehicles that have such an issue, damn the luck!
I'm trying to track down the first owner of my bike in Colorado to see if he has ever replaced the CCTs on the SH.
I have a 2011 VW GTI and there are rare instances with that engine when the CCT will fail on start-up and cause massive engine failure... It sounds much more common on this bike! I'm just a lucky guy that picked two vehicles that have such an issue, damn the luck!
I'm trying to track down the first owner of my bike in Colorado to see if he has ever replaced the CCTs on the SH.
10-23-2013 | 02:02 PM
#37
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Superstock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 250
From: Seattle
10-23-2013 | 02:12 PM
#38
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SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,707
From: Essex, UK
A visual inspection will tell you if you have standard Honda CCTs - if so then contact Mark Krieger > Krieger Cam Chain Tensioners
Thanks guys! I have a fairly good grasp of how they work but I was wondering if there were any warning symptoms such as a strange noise.
I have a 2011 VW GTI and there are rare instances with that engine when the CCT will fail on start-up and cause massive engine failure... It sounds much more common on this bike! I'm just a lucky guy that picked two vehicles that have such an issue, damn the luck!
I'm trying to track down the first owner of my bike in Colorado to see if he has ever replaced the CCTs on the SH.
I have a 2011 VW GTI and there are rare instances with that engine when the CCT will fail on start-up and cause massive engine failure... It sounds much more common on this bike! I'm just a lucky guy that picked two vehicles that have such an issue, damn the luck!
I'm trying to track down the first owner of my bike in Colorado to see if he has ever replaced the CCTs on the SH.
10-24-2013 | 09:31 AM
#40
Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 38
From: Kansas
A visual inspection will tell you if you have standard Honda CCTs - if so then contact Mark Krieger > Krieger Cam Chain Tensioners
11-21-2013 | 01:19 PM
#46
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MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Easiest way is to upload the photo to a hosting site (such as photobucket), then copy and paste the "IMG" link. It just shows up then.
You can also "go advanced" in your thread reply and attach with the little paperclip icon, but the pic has to be a certain size and is more tedious to view...
You can also "go advanced" in your thread reply and attach with the little paperclip icon, but the pic has to be a certain size and is more tedious to view...
01-27-2014 | 06:30 PM
#47
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 136
From: Delaware, Ohio USA
+1
But I was lazy with mine, when I did the front CCT. I tapped it over until I felt compression, then lined up front TDC. But you've got to be very careful doing it that way. I have decades of experience finding TDC compression that way on car engines. However, inexperienced people sometimes mistake the exhaust push for compression, or they go too far after feeling compression and pass the TDC mark, ending up on exhaust stroke, and that wouldn't be good on a VTR. The chain would slip when the CCT is backed off.
But I was lazy with mine, when I did the front CCT. I tapped it over until I felt compression, then lined up front TDC. But you've got to be very careful doing it that way. I have decades of experience finding TDC compression that way on car engines. However, inexperienced people sometimes mistake the exhaust push for compression, or they go too far after feeling compression and pass the TDC mark, ending up on exhaust stroke, and that wouldn't be good on a VTR. The chain would slip when the CCT is backed off.
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