Timing advancer install....has become clutch basket nut removal now
09-03-2011 | 11:34 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 35
From: Montana
Timing advancer install....has become clutch basket nut removal now
Hello,
I'm curious if anyone has installed a Factory 4 deg. timing advancer and if they had any difficulties? Looking over the manual, it appeared somewhat straight forward, so I drained fluids, removed covers and cases to get to the meat of the matter and as I was loosening the sub gear/primary gear bolt, the three little springs sandwiched between the gears popped out from their homes. I didn't know the gear sandwich was under tension or I would have had a second pair of hands holding them down while I swapped the advancer. After a good 30 minutes of fiddling with the gear spring sandwich, I decided to move on to the next step of removing both gears to set the springs back in as per the manual.
To do this, I need to remove the clutch basket in order to remove the primary gear, which leads me to my next question. Can someone confirm what the socket size is to remove the clutch basket nut? I tried my 30mm and it seemed to have a wee bit of slop but since I don't have a 29mm I couldn't try that size.
Also, it appears someone really went to town on staking the nut on the shaft. It doesn't seem to have any space around the notch to slip a small screw driver in to pry the lip out.
Does anyone have any tricks they've used to get the nut off? I have an impact wrench but need to get the correct size socket still.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Brian
I'm curious if anyone has installed a Factory 4 deg. timing advancer and if they had any difficulties? Looking over the manual, it appeared somewhat straight forward, so I drained fluids, removed covers and cases to get to the meat of the matter and as I was loosening the sub gear/primary gear bolt, the three little springs sandwiched between the gears popped out from their homes. I didn't know the gear sandwich was under tension or I would have had a second pair of hands holding them down while I swapped the advancer. After a good 30 minutes of fiddling with the gear spring sandwich, I decided to move on to the next step of removing both gears to set the springs back in as per the manual.
To do this, I need to remove the clutch basket in order to remove the primary gear, which leads me to my next question. Can someone confirm what the socket size is to remove the clutch basket nut? I tried my 30mm and it seemed to have a wee bit of slop but since I don't have a 29mm I couldn't try that size.
Also, it appears someone really went to town on staking the nut on the shaft. It doesn't seem to have any space around the notch to slip a small screw driver in to pry the lip out.
Does anyone have any tricks they've used to get the nut off? I have an impact wrench but need to get the correct size socket still.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Brian
09-04-2011 | 02:47 AM
#2
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
Yeah, there is info on the forum about the install, probably in the Knowledge Base. The same thing happened to me many, many years ago. I think I got one of the first ones from Factory. This goes wayyyy back before this forum even existed.
09-04-2011 | 03:22 AM
#3
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
Here's a thread... https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...tall-qs-13087/
Detailed instructions are also on my website (link below).
Detailed instructions are also on my website (link below).
09-05-2011 | 10:15 AM
#5
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Oddly enough, when I installed mine on Friday, the exact same thing happened to me. My ziptip slid a few notches and popped open 
My solution (without taking the gears off) was to align the gears where they needed to be (using the two holes that were necessary for the bolt and ziptie to begin with as orientation) and set the gear in the proper orientation on the left side, with the right somewhat ****-eyed on the right (about 1cm away from the primary gear). Then I used engine lube on the springs and put them all at an equal ****-eye with the mounting tab and the primary gear indents.
I then used a threaded bolt/nut through the unthreaded hole and tightened both of the threaded holes evenly and the springs popped into place, I then used a small locking vice to gently hold the gears together while I got a stronger zip tie and finished the install. It's not that bad getting it apart but even with the trouble involved, it makes a tremendous difference and it is well worth the time!
Happy wrenching and good luck!
My solution (without taking the gears off) was to align the gears where they needed to be (using the two holes that were necessary for the bolt and ziptie to begin with as orientation) and set the gear in the proper orientation on the left side, with the right somewhat ****-eyed on the right (about 1cm away from the primary gear). Then I used engine lube on the springs and put them all at an equal ****-eye with the mounting tab and the primary gear indents.
I then used a threaded bolt/nut through the unthreaded hole and tightened both of the threaded holes evenly and the springs popped into place, I then used a small locking vice to gently hold the gears together while I got a stronger zip tie and finished the install. It's not that bad getting it apart but even with the trouble involved, it makes a tremendous difference and it is well worth the time!
Happy wrenching and good luck!
09-05-2011 | 12:17 PM
#6
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,015
If you got the basket out you can easily install the FP shift detent kit. It can be installed with basket in, but easier with it out.
09-05-2011 | 04:12 PM
#8
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 156
From: Santa Cruz, CA
Once installed, do tell how you like it and what you noticed as far as change to power/feel...I have the 4deg. advancer that has been in my tool box for about a decade. Maybe I should use it????
09-05-2011 | 06:29 PM
#9
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
IMHO it really does make a difference. I got mine installed the other day and the first time I took it on the freeway it really made a world of difference at 5500+rpms. Granted, I did change the oil from conventional to synthetic at the same time, but the smoothness of power was amazing and for some reason, I think it sounds a lot better than it did before too (might in my head
). I would recommend it if you've got it sitting around at your next oil change. It's really a simple procedure and the time vs. benefit. No notes on fuel consumption yet because I haven't gone through enough of a tank to check yet.
09-05-2011 | 10:12 PM
#11
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
The will NOT fit through the small gaps in the floating ring, it's a pain, but if you've got nimble fingers and some smaller screw drivers, it is possible.
Best of luck!
10-13-2011 | 04:30 PM
#12
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 35
From: Montana
Update: So, while I was trying the above mentioned technique of slipping the springs in between the gears while keeping them offset, I unintentionally squished the conical spring that resides between the gears, rendering it useless. After that, I decided to remove both gears as well as the clutch basket and try it that way.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
10-13-2011 | 10:13 PM
#13
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 201
Update: So, while I was trying the above mentioned technique of slipping the springs in between the gears while keeping them offset, I unintentionally squished the conical spring that resides between the gears, rendering it useless. After that, I decided to remove both gears as well as the clutch basket and try it that way.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
Sooooooo? How do you like the advancer?
10-13-2011 | 11:41 PM
#14
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Update: So, while I was trying the above mentioned technique of slipping the springs in between the gears while keeping them offset, I unintentionally squished the conical spring that resides between the gears, rendering it useless. After that, I decided to remove both gears as well as the clutch basket and try it that way.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
After receiving my new spring, I used an impact wrench to remove the clutch center basket nut. At first it didn't appear to me moving, but then it broke loose and off it came. Once that assembly was removed, I was able to remove both gears. With the gears off, it was much easier to re-assemble the pieces. I think it took me a whole 15 minutes get everything lined up and torqued down.
So, the moral of this story? Search, read and re-read threads related to what you are about to do so you don't have to take the long way around.....like I did. I will say that even though it took me way longer than I had hoped or expected, I did learn some stuff so I can't complain.
10-14-2011 | 11:57 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 35
From: Montana
Not sure yet. I'm still waiting for the right crankcase gasket to come so I can button it all up. I thought my local honda dealer would have gaskets in stock, but I found out those are special order items....like most everything else I have needed.
It doesn't seem that long ago when I could go to the dealer and pick up the parts needed right then and not have to wait for them to order them. Now, no one stocks much in the way of parts, everything is special order.
One more question. From what I can make of the diagram in the shop manual, it's only the very last clutch plate that gets seated in the shallow tab of the clutch basket, is that correct?
It doesn't seem that long ago when I could go to the dealer and pick up the parts needed right then and not have to wait for them to order them. Now, no one stocks much in the way of parts, everything is special order.
One more question. From what I can make of the diagram in the shop manual, it's only the very last clutch plate that gets seated in the shallow tab of the clutch basket, is that correct?
10-14-2011 | 03:44 PM
#16
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 834
From: Nooksack WA
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