Problems starting
03-24-2011 | 05:15 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Problems starting
I've still been having problems getting the SH started.
Recently I installed an HID kit and went through without a hitch.
Parked her for about 6 hrs and when I came back the bike wouldn't start.
Tore 'er down and found that I wasn't getting any spark and followed the manual on this one and I found that I was getting power to the yellow line at the ECU and no spark, meaning bad ECU.
Ordered ECU, arrived today, put it on and the bike still won't start and I'm still not getting any spark.
Gas is in the lines (I did fill up but tested my petcock and it's working fine).
stator lines check out fine and I'm reading a steady .6ohm between all 3 wires at the R/R.
R/R was replaced before I bought the bike with a finned one (unknown origin) and all gauges/lights/turn signals still work.
And I did check all the switches to make sure they're working properly.
What's wrong with my damn motorcycle?
Recently I installed an HID kit and went through without a hitch.
Parked her for about 6 hrs and when I came back the bike wouldn't start.
Tore 'er down and found that I wasn't getting any spark and followed the manual on this one and I found that I was getting power to the yellow line at the ECU and no spark, meaning bad ECU.
Ordered ECU, arrived today, put it on and the bike still won't start and I'm still not getting any spark.
Gas is in the lines (I did fill up but tested my petcock and it's working fine).
stator lines check out fine and I'm reading a steady .6ohm between all 3 wires at the R/R.
R/R was replaced before I bought the bike with a finned one (unknown origin) and all gauges/lights/turn signals still work.
And I did check all the switches to make sure they're working properly.
What's wrong with my damn motorcycle?
03-24-2011 | 09:51 PM
#3
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 238
Just FYI, doing a Hid retrofit is probably the worst thing you can do for lighting upgrade. First unless you use a projector lens you blind everyone since reflectors don't have a glare cut off and you loose visibility since the light isn't focused. Nextly while the kit isn't illegal, it is illegal to use the retrofit kit without the proper housing and is subject to being to ticketed. And in ca they'll pull you over for anything. Just a friendly FYI.
03-25-2011 | 12:22 AM
#4
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Just FYI, doing a Hid retrofit is probably the worst thing you can do for lighting upgrade. First unless you use a projector lens you blind everyone since reflectors don't have a glare cut off and you loose visibility since the light isn't focused. Nextly while the kit isn't illegal, it is illegal to use the retrofit kit without the proper housing and is subject to being to ticketed. And in ca they'll pull you over for anything. Just a friendly FYI.
The key word here is retrofit... That implies using a full HID projector... Ie you get the correct lighting...
Sticking a kit in the stock housing is not called a retrofit... But I agree, sticking a HID kit in the bike instead of a retrofit is stupid...
Bass... The HID ballast requires a lot of power at startup, and unless you changed something it comes on at the same time as you push the starter... Ie it steals a lot of power that the starter needs... Try disconnecting it and see what happens...
What voltages do you have at the battery, both after resting a while, and when cranking?
Also, check the most obvious, the kill switch... You won't be the first to tear your bike apart to find it's the kill switch cutting your spark... The VTR for some reason turns over but can't fire with it engaged, which fools you...
03-25-2011 | 01:12 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
The engine turns over fine, there's no hesitation, chugging or any odd knocks or noises.
Like I said there is gas in the lines and I didn't hook up my vacuum wrong, I've read enough posts about it to check my work 5x on that and when I pull the plugs after trying to start it, there's gas on them.
-Tweety, I've checked all the switches and the kill switch was cleaned recently as I was having problems with it, but I double checked it and it clears. The battery is new and the HID kit has a delay/relay on it so I don't think that's any sort of problem, that and I removed the fuse to the ballast so there was no light while starting it just in case.
The battery is just above 12.4 resting and I haven't had a chance to check during draw because I'm still missing the 3rd and 4th hands that are necessary, so I plan on waiting till evolution gives me them........... or my friend comes over to push the starter =p
I've gone over the entire diagnostic on the ignition system (outside of peak voltage because the adapters are like $120!!!!!) and everything checks out. It was a used ECU (and ICM) off of a "running" bike, so I don't think that would be the problem, and the coils were just changed to stick coils.
@nykuryu: I think there's a point when plopping an HID in stock projector housing when you're doing more harm than good, you blind people into swerving into you! But no, this is a true retrofit (as tweety mentioned) that includes a pretty little metal and glass thing that confuses people inside my matte black stock housing =)
If the cops pulled a bike over for having "TOO BRIGHT OF HEADLIGHTS" and tried to take that to court, the officer would be laughed out of court by the judge. Yes, there are certain LM restrictions and beam angle and % of light refracted into oncoming traffic... blahblahblah you get the point, but no cop in their right mind would pull a biker over for that.
But really, the only thing I haven't done is change the spark plugs or the fuses. And no fuses were blown, and the plugs are perfect tan color, so why bother?
The bike was running flawlessly until I parked it which is what is confusing me. It couldn't be the pulse points for the coils because the bike wouldn't have run beforehand which is what indicated the ECU, but I did the diagnostic and found that it was before I jumped the gun.
The carbs were tuned by myself (I restore old carbs as a business) and have a factorypro kit in them.
SO where too now guys? I'm out of ideas.
Like I said there is gas in the lines and I didn't hook up my vacuum wrong, I've read enough posts about it to check my work 5x on that and when I pull the plugs after trying to start it, there's gas on them.
-Tweety, I've checked all the switches and the kill switch was cleaned recently as I was having problems with it, but I double checked it and it clears. The battery is new and the HID kit has a delay/relay on it so I don't think that's any sort of problem, that and I removed the fuse to the ballast so there was no light while starting it just in case.
The battery is just above 12.4 resting and I haven't had a chance to check during draw because I'm still missing the 3rd and 4th hands that are necessary, so I plan on waiting till evolution gives me them........... or my friend comes over to push the starter =p
I've gone over the entire diagnostic on the ignition system (outside of peak voltage because the adapters are like $120!!!!!) and everything checks out. It was a used ECU (and ICM) off of a "running" bike, so I don't think that would be the problem, and the coils were just changed to stick coils.
@nykuryu: I think there's a point when plopping an HID in stock projector housing when you're doing more harm than good, you blind people into swerving into you! But no, this is a true retrofit (as tweety mentioned) that includes a pretty little metal and glass thing that confuses people inside my matte black stock housing =)
If the cops pulled a bike over for having "TOO BRIGHT OF HEADLIGHTS" and tried to take that to court, the officer would be laughed out of court by the judge. Yes, there are certain LM restrictions and beam angle and % of light refracted into oncoming traffic... blahblahblah you get the point, but no cop in their right mind would pull a biker over for that.
But really, the only thing I haven't done is change the spark plugs or the fuses. And no fuses were blown, and the plugs are perfect tan color, so why bother?
The bike was running flawlessly until I parked it which is what is confusing me. It couldn't be the pulse points for the coils because the bike wouldn't have run beforehand which is what indicated the ECU, but I did the diagnostic and found that it was before I jumped the gun.
The carbs were tuned by myself (I restore old carbs as a business) and have a factorypro kit in them.
SO where too now guys? I'm out of ideas.
03-25-2011 | 09:22 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Both bowls have plenty of fuel in them, and like I said, when I pull the plugs they smell like gas.
I've checked for spark using both the head (to look for a physical spark) and as well using a spark checker (same thing just with a nifty little LED pickup) and I'm not getting any spark on the front or rear. Not as much as a sputter.
I've checked for spark using both the head (to look for a physical spark) and as well using a spark checker (same thing just with a nifty little LED pickup) and I'm not getting any spark on the front or rear. Not as much as a sputter.
03-25-2011 | 09:45 AM
#8
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
If the cops pulled a bike over for having "TOO BRIGHT OF HEADLIGHTS" and tried to take that to court, the officer would be laughed out of court by the judge. Yes, there are certain LM restrictions and beam angle and % of light refracted into oncoming traffic... blahblahblah you get the point, but no cop in their right mind would pull a biker over for that.
03-25-2011 | 01:10 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
The bike is at my girlfriends house because that's where it broke so I wouldn't really feel comfortable imposing that on her, but I can give you a "virtual" tour on your SH about what mine is doing and whatnot.
I've been staring at this damn thing so long, when I close my eyes I see it
I've got 2 more outlets to try and then I'll let you know what's up!
03-25-2011 | 03:15 PM
#11
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 238
FYI, knowing what you are talking about is a good thing...
The key word here is retrofit... That implies using a full HID projector... Ie you get the correct lighting...
Sticking a kit in the stock housing is not called a retrofit... But I agree, sticking a HID kit in the bike instead of a retrofit is stupid...
Bass... The HID ballast requires a lot of power at startup, and unless you changed something it comes on at the same time as you push the starter... Ie it steals a lot of power that the starter needs... Try disconnecting it and see what happens...
What voltages do you have at the battery, both after resting a while, and when cranking?
Also, check the most obvious, the kill switch... You won't be the first to tear your bike apart to find it's the kill switch cutting your spark... The VTR for some reason turns over but can't fire with it engaged, which fools you...
The key word here is retrofit... That implies using a full HID projector... Ie you get the correct lighting...
Sticking a kit in the stock housing is not called a retrofit... But I agree, sticking a HID kit in the bike instead of a retrofit is stupid...
Bass... The HID ballast requires a lot of power at startup, and unless you changed something it comes on at the same time as you push the starter... Ie it steals a lot of power that the starter needs... Try disconnecting it and see what happens...
What voltages do you have at the battery, both after resting a while, and when cranking?
Also, check the most obvious, the kill switch... You won't be the first to tear your bike apart to find it's the kill switch cutting your spark... The VTR for some reason turns over but can't fire with it engaged, which fools you...
retrofit definition
provide with parts, devices, or equipment not available or in use at the time of the original manufacture; "They car companies retrofitted all the old models with new carburetors"
fit in or on an existing structure, such as an older house; "The mansion was retrofitted with modern plumbing"
a component or accessory added to something after it has been manufactured
substitute new or modernized parts or equipment for older ones; "The laboratory retrofitted to meet the safety codes"
the act of adding a component or accessory to something that did not have it when it was manufactured; "the court ordered a retrofit on all automobiles"
so you can retrofit a HID ballast and bulb into a old housing. eat it
An "HID kit" consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for retrofitting into a halogen headlamp, normally doesnt have a housing or lense.
03-25-2011 | 04:22 PM
#12
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
FUNNY THING IS! I was actually planning on PMing you about testing this ECU that I picked up that was off of a "running" bike on ebay. That is, assuming you'd be okay putting this ECU on your bike for a minute =)
The bike is at my girlfriends house because that's where it broke so I wouldn't really feel comfortable imposing that on her, but I can give you a "virtual" tour on your SH about what mine is doing and whatnot.
I've been staring at this damn thing so long, when I close my eyes I see it
I've got 2 more outlets to try and then I'll let you know what's up!
The bike is at my girlfriends house because that's where it broke so I wouldn't really feel comfortable imposing that on her, but I can give you a "virtual" tour on your SH about what mine is doing and whatnot.
I've been staring at this damn thing so long, when I close my eyes I see it
I've got 2 more outlets to try and then I'll let you know what's up!
03-25-2011 | 06:28 PM
#13
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
FYI im not ******* retarded
retrofit definition
provide with parts, devices, or equipment not available or in use at the time of the original manufacture; "They car companies retrofitted all the old models with new carburetors"
fit in or on an existing structure, such as an older house; "The mansion was retrofitted with modern plumbing"
a component or accessory added to something after it has been manufactured
substitute new or modernized parts or equipment for older ones; "The laboratory retrofitted to meet the safety codes"
the act of adding a component or accessory to something that did not have it when it was manufactured; "the court ordered a retrofit on all automobiles"
so you can retrofit a HID ballast and bulb into a old housing. eat it
An "HID kit" consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for retrofitting into a halogen headlamp, normally doesnt have a housing or lense.
retrofit definition
provide with parts, devices, or equipment not available or in use at the time of the original manufacture; "They car companies retrofitted all the old models with new carburetors"
fit in or on an existing structure, such as an older house; "The mansion was retrofitted with modern plumbing"
a component or accessory added to something after it has been manufactured
substitute new or modernized parts or equipment for older ones; "The laboratory retrofitted to meet the safety codes"
the act of adding a component or accessory to something that did not have it when it was manufactured; "the court ordered a retrofit on all automobiles"
so you can retrofit a HID ballast and bulb into a old housing. eat it
An "HID kit" consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for retrofitting into a halogen headlamp, normally doesnt have a housing or lense.
So for your next post, keep it civil... Or you will get back what you give in spades, understood?
As to the actual question, nice quote from a dictionary... The defenition I was using however is not in a dictionary... It's the commonly used term on several forums, dedicated to upgrading your car and bike to use HID projectors...
There, and in most places online, you distinguish between a "HID retrofit" and a "HID kit", by the simple difference that one means fitting a projector from a different car (or copies) and the other means a HID bulb & ballast (usually cheap of eBay)... One being a means to get correct lighting that won't get you pulled over, the other being more used as a derogatory term for all the crappy cheap stuff that will get you a ticket if you happen to be pulled over for something else...
Also, in the strict sense of the dictionary quote, putting a bulb in the stock housing, albeit a HID bulb is borderline... You are actually just replacing the bulb, so nothing "new" in that respect... But yeah, adding the ballast sort of qualifies... Still, adding different type bulb (different fitting, won't work in the stock housing) and a projector is a direct match for your quote...
If you are going to start an fight, at least make it interesting by making it difficult to poke holes in your arguments...
03-25-2011 | 08:51 PM
#14
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
as OP to this topic can we please keep the a)rude/unnecessary comments & cursing like a sailor to a minimum and b)derivation from the OP to a minimum too!
=)
THANKS! I do curse like a sailor but online is stupid in many aspects. hate to break it to you bud, but tweety is right here, you don't start fights via forum.
If you have something to settle with one of the most knowledgeable people on the forum, PM him.
And just btw, I followed his "retrofit" when I put mine in. So yes, he does know what's up, I just kinda copied him, sorta (Thanks for the write up BTW, pretty straight forward but it was nice to see it before I dived in)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SO! back to the original topic, I replaced the plugs just as a precautionary step (needed to be done anyways) and double checked on the timing (spot on [and I knew it wasn't going to be that because I'm not getting spark period]), and I double checked the switch again and it's still fine.
I just want to make sure my method of testing the switch is good with limited tools, because I know that the kill switch either allows for continuity to ground with the coils, or it doesn't (off position) and therefore, by using the secondary coils I check for continuity against ground, and if I have tone, the switch is "working"? or should I find a wiring diagram and pull the front connector apart and check from there? The methods of both the same, right?
same deal with the N and sidestand switch too, right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
and as a final note to this bickering, this is a forum for knowledge, not napoleon syndrome, if you don't have anything constructive to say, either hold your tongue (-fingers-) or post it in a friendly way as an OPINION!
Everyone has an opinion, yours is probably just WRONG!
=)
THANKS! I do curse like a sailor but online is stupid in many aspects. hate to break it to you bud, but tweety is right here, you don't start fights via forum.
If you have something to settle with one of the most knowledgeable people on the forum, PM him.
And just btw, I followed his "retrofit" when I put mine in. So yes, he does know what's up, I just kinda copied him, sorta (Thanks for the write up BTW, pretty straight forward but it was nice to see it before I dived in)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
SO! back to the original topic, I replaced the plugs just as a precautionary step (needed to be done anyways) and double checked on the timing (spot on [and I knew it wasn't going to be that because I'm not getting spark period]), and I double checked the switch again and it's still fine.
I just want to make sure my method of testing the switch is good with limited tools, because I know that the kill switch either allows for continuity to ground with the coils, or it doesn't (off position) and therefore, by using the secondary coils I check for continuity against ground, and if I have tone, the switch is "working"? or should I find a wiring diagram and pull the front connector apart and check from there? The methods of both the same, right?
same deal with the N and sidestand switch too, right?
--------------------------------------------------------------------
and as a final note to this bickering, this is a forum for knowledge, not napoleon syndrome, if you don't have anything constructive to say, either hold your tongue (-fingers-) or post it in a friendly way as an OPINION!
Everyone has an opinion, yours is probably just WRONG!
Last edited by bass4dude; 03-25-2011 at 08:54 PM.
03-26-2011 | 03:21 AM
#15
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Actually your testing of the switches sounds like it's correct... So those shouldn't be the problem... And we are back to square one... You could temporarily replace those switches with a small piece of wire, to eliminate them as problems, but I doubt you need too...
I'm beginning to lean towards bad ECU, possibly from a bad R/R killing it... Not a certain thing though...
Could also be the keyswitch, some have had problems with that... To be able to sort that out you need to look at the wiring diagram and measure at the connector...
I'm beginning to lean towards bad ECU, possibly from a bad R/R killing it... Not a certain thing though...
Could also be the keyswitch, some have had problems with that... To be able to sort that out you need to look at the wiring diagram and measure at the connector...
03-26-2011 | 04:22 AM
#16
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
I purchased a used ECU from someone on ebay off of a running SH, but the only problem is there is no diagnostic for the ECU. Probably a bad idea in retrospect to buy electronics from an unknown vendor but ohh well, it's what I could afford at the time, but now I have tax refunds and 2 held paychecks so I really hope it's not the ECU because that'd be somewhat miserable.
Per the manual (outside of the peak voltage) it points to the ECU.
I've heard of the same problems browsing around on the forum but typically they were the ICM if I remember correctly, but neither of mine smell funky to indicate something got fried but they are potted so who knows with these damn things.
I tried bumpstarting it as well but the Q2s on there just slip on the pavement when they're cold so I couldn't test to see if it's just the starting circuit that's bad or whether it's the running circuit too.
hawk8451 seems to be willing to be a dummy bike for now, so I'll probably end up taking him up on that at a later date.
And tweety, per the manual (again) I've checked the stator wires, but is there any reading from testing the pins on the R/R that would indicate whether it's bad or not or is it like the ECU with no diagnostic? I tried swapping my VFR's R/R into it but it was an 8pin with some weird black wire on it so I stopped
The day I installed my retrofit (2 days before breakdown) I checked the charging system and it was spot on and I double checked the battery, ballast, and every other electronic doodad (less tach) and none of them are blown/fried/bad.
One notable thing was that even with the "good" charging system, I was parked outside my house (with the stock halogen still in) and when I'd rev the engine, the headlight would dim instead of getting brighter, so that kinda threw me a curve ball too. I don't know if that makes one of the gears click in your head because it confused the crap outta me.
It's supposed to stop raining like its the end of the world early next week (I know I can't complain because most everyone is under snow!
) but I'd really love to have the SH up and running for the first group ride of the season on april1st. OH SUPERHAWK, WHY MUST YOU DIE ON ME!
Per the manual (outside of the peak voltage) it points to the ECU.
I've heard of the same problems browsing around on the forum but typically they were the ICM if I remember correctly, but neither of mine smell funky to indicate something got fried but they are potted so who knows with these damn things.
I tried bumpstarting it as well but the Q2s on there just slip on the pavement when they're cold so I couldn't test to see if it's just the starting circuit that's bad or whether it's the running circuit too.
hawk8451 seems to be willing to be a dummy bike for now, so I'll probably end up taking him up on that at a later date.
And tweety, per the manual (again) I've checked the stator wires, but is there any reading from testing the pins on the R/R that would indicate whether it's bad or not or is it like the ECU with no diagnostic? I tried swapping my VFR's R/R into it but it was an 8pin with some weird black wire on it so I stopped
The day I installed my retrofit (2 days before breakdown) I checked the charging system and it was spot on and I double checked the battery, ballast, and every other electronic doodad (less tach) and none of them are blown/fried/bad.
One notable thing was that even with the "good" charging system, I was parked outside my house (with the stock halogen still in) and when I'd rev the engine, the headlight would dim instead of getting brighter, so that kinda threw me a curve ball too. I don't know if that makes one of the gears click in your head because it confused the crap outta me.
It's supposed to stop raining like its the end of the world early next week (I know I can't complain because most everyone is under snow!
) but I'd really love to have the SH up and running for the first group ride of the season on april1st. OH SUPERHAWK, WHY MUST YOU DIE ON ME!
03-26-2011 | 04:45 AM
#17
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I purchased a used ECU from someone on ebay off of a running SH, but the only problem is there is no diagnostic for the ECU. Probably a bad idea in retrospect to buy electronics from an unknown vendor but ohh well, it's what I could afford at the time, but now I have tax refunds and 2 held paychecks so I really hope it's not the ECU because that'd be somewhat miserable.
Per the manual (outside of the peak voltage) it points to the ECU.
I've heard of the same problems browsing around on the forum but typically they were the ICM if I remember correctly, but neither of mine smell funky to indicate something got fried but they are potted so who knows with these damn things.
I tried bumpstarting it as well but the Q2s on there just slip on the pavement when they're cold so I couldn't test to see if it's just the starting circuit that's bad or whether it's the running circuit too.
hawk8451 seems to be willing to be a dummy bike for now, so I'll probably end up taking him up on that at a later date.
And tweety, per the manual (again) I've checked the stator wires, but is there any reading from testing the pins on the R/R that would indicate whether it's bad or not or is it like the ECU with no diagnostic? I tried swapping my VFR's R/R into it but it was an 8pin with some weird black wire on it so I stopped
The day I installed my retrofit (2 days before breakdown) I checked the charging system and it was spot on and I double checked the battery, ballast, and every other electronic doodad (less tach) and none of them are blown/fried/bad.
One notable thing was that even with the "good" charging system, I was parked outside my house (with the stock halogen still in) and when I'd rev the engine, the headlight would dim instead of getting brighter, so that kinda threw me a curve ball too. I don't know if that makes one of the gears click in your head because it confused the crap outta me.
It's supposed to stop raining like its the end of the world early next week (I know I can't complain because most everyone is under snow!) but I'd really love to have the SH up and running for the first group ride of the season on april1st. OH SUPERHAWK, WHY MUST YOU DIE ON ME!
Per the manual (outside of the peak voltage) it points to the ECU.
I've heard of the same problems browsing around on the forum but typically they were the ICM if I remember correctly, but neither of mine smell funky to indicate something got fried but they are potted so who knows with these damn things.
I tried bumpstarting it as well but the Q2s on there just slip on the pavement when they're cold so I couldn't test to see if it's just the starting circuit that's bad or whether it's the running circuit too.
hawk8451 seems to be willing to be a dummy bike for now, so I'll probably end up taking him up on that at a later date.
And tweety, per the manual (again) I've checked the stator wires, but is there any reading from testing the pins on the R/R that would indicate whether it's bad or not or is it like the ECU with no diagnostic? I tried swapping my VFR's R/R into it but it was an 8pin with some weird black wire on it so I stopped
The day I installed my retrofit (2 days before breakdown) I checked the charging system and it was spot on and I double checked the battery, ballast, and every other electronic doodad (less tach) and none of them are blown/fried/bad.
One notable thing was that even with the "good" charging system, I was parked outside my house (with the stock halogen still in) and when I'd rev the engine, the headlight would dim instead of getting brighter, so that kinda threw me a curve ball too. I don't know if that makes one of the gears click in your head because it confused the crap outta me.
It's supposed to stop raining like its the end of the world early next week (I know I can't complain because most everyone is under snow!
) but I'd really love to have the SH up and running for the first group ride of the season on april1st. OH SUPERHAWK, WHY MUST YOU DIE ON ME!But, the older and more tired it get's the swings become larger and slower, so if the dimming is more pronounced it's a telltale... The thing is, I imagine it's pretty hard for you to know the difference having no reference...
The manual isn't very complete on how to check the R/R... It seems it never occured to Honda at the time that they could even fail... Stupid but true... Go here and download the pdf files... If you have a semi-cheap multimeter it should be able to test diodes, so you should be able to at least know a bit more about that R/R...
The ECU and ICM are indeed potted, and it's very unlikely you will be able to feel the smell of the magic smoke unless you throw them on a bonfire, and that's not an acceptable diagnostic method...
Unfortunately I can't come up with more useful tips right now, but I would get 8541Hawk over there and have a second set of eyes on the bike... You tend to miss the little things when you get frustrated and a fresh look is a good idea, besides the testing of items...
03-26-2011 | 07:40 PM
#19
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Tweety, did you mean to put a hyperlink there? Because you said go here, but there was no direction!
And it's a 98, the ECU/ICM are the same for all years (1st gen) so it will fit regardless (IIRC)
And my girlfriend says to put a heart, so here ya go guys <3
And it's a 98, the ECU/ICM are the same for all years (1st gen) so it will fit regardless (IIRC)
And my girlfriend says to put a heart, so here ya go guys <3
03-26-2011 | 08:02 PM
#20
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 805
From: Delmar NY
I think this is the link Markus meant:
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf
That goes right to the fault flow chart. There are some other articles also on the electrosport site you may find helpful
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf
That goes right to the fault flow chart. There are some other articles also on the electrosport site you may find helpful
03-27-2011 | 02:06 AM
#21
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
Thank you for the link, Steve, I'll check my R/R as soon as I get the chance too.
But assuming that the ECU that I purchased is good, would a fried R/R prevent the bike from starting completely?
I think that's one of the last tests on the ECU is receiving voltage from the charging system on the yellow wire so if I was getting power then I wouldn't necessarily have a bad R/R?
Or if the R/R is busted, would the (+) feed from/to the batt. to R/R still show as a live feed to that particular wire to the ECU?
Sorry about the weird progression of questions, I'm kinda thinking out loud here and hoping someone pokes holes in my logic or tells me I'm okay here hahaha.
But assuming that the ECU that I purchased is good, would a fried R/R prevent the bike from starting completely?
I think that's one of the last tests on the ECU is receiving voltage from the charging system on the yellow wire so if I was getting power then I wouldn't necessarily have a bad R/R?
Or if the R/R is busted, would the (+) feed from/to the batt. to R/R still show as a live feed to that particular wire to the ECU?
Sorry about the weird progression of questions, I'm kinda thinking out loud here and hoping someone pokes holes in my logic or tells me I'm okay here hahaha.
03-27-2011 | 05:03 AM
#22
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The R/R both charges the battery and powers the rest of the bike while running, and with the engine shut of, the battery powers the entire bike... Ie a busted R/R doesn't mean you wont get power to the ECU, it will still be powered as long as the battery is still good...
The battery however should be around 13V resting if good, yours are not at the moment so it probably needs a charge... The R/R should provide ~14V while the bike is running, and all the elctronics in the bike "work" at 12V+ but is a lot happier at 13v+...
Simple, right?
To make it more complicated, R/R's fail in two ways... Overvoltage ie "Poof!" followed by smoke and broken parts, or undervoltage which just means that the battery is badly charged and will eventually fail when it cant keep compensating for the failing R/R...
The battery however should be around 13V resting if good, yours are not at the moment so it probably needs a charge... The R/R should provide ~14V while the bike is running, and all the elctronics in the bike "work" at 12V+ but is a lot happier at 13v+...
Simple, right?
To make it more complicated, R/R's fail in two ways... Overvoltage ie "Poof!" followed by smoke and broken parts, or undervoltage which just means that the battery is badly charged and will eventually fail when it cant keep compensating for the failing R/R...
Last edited by Tweety; 03-27-2011 at 05:06 AM.
03-27-2011 | 08:02 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
The logical progression in my head was somewhat.... less than adequate last night haha, I could have figured that because the R/R has a (+) lead directly to the battery, it would be functioning as both charging system and powering the bike while running. In fact, I remember reading that in one of the articles on electrosport so I guess I didn't connect the two.
But with an undercharge from the R/R, I'm assuming it wouldn't be sudden, as you said that one was more a gradual failure of the R/R but I do distinctly remember at 2500rpm the charging system was at a solid 13.8 volts. And I didn't get a chance to do the high idle test because it was 10:30pm and my M4s tend to upset the neighbors!
Well now I'm just talking myself in circles.
But with an undercharge from the R/R, I'm assuming it wouldn't be sudden, as you said that one was more a gradual failure of the R/R but I do distinctly remember at 2500rpm the charging system was at a solid 13.8 volts. And I didn't get a chance to do the high idle test because it was 10:30pm and my M4s tend to upset the neighbors!
Well now I'm just talking myself in circles.
04-07-2011 | 08:08 PM
#24
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
So I checked my R/R and everything is spot on, so I don't know what's going on.
But now I've lost the coil grounding and it's not the switches because I tested each one (for like the 4th time) and each one is functioning fine. I replaced the side and kill switch with wire so it's not them and the N switch is showing up fine.
I've yet to check the ECU/ICM but could my ign. pulse pickups be the problem here? I've been going through the wiring diagram and all it's doing is making me scratch my head.
But now I've lost the coil grounding and it's not the switches because I tested each one (for like the 4th time) and each one is functioning fine. I replaced the side and kill switch with wire so it's not them and the N switch is showing up fine.
I've yet to check the ECU/ICM but could my ign. pulse pickups be the problem here? I've been going through the wiring diagram and all it's doing is making me scratch my head.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
