Normal Tire wear?
12-13-2011 | 05:00 AM
#2
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
Every other tires over my lifetime have displayed a little larger strips front. My latest Q2s below pics(190x55 on a 5.5" rim) are displaying normal chicken strips, unlike the oversize michelins cited above and they are the best I've experienced for the twisties. These pics were at 500 miles; now have about 3000miles on them and they are still very planted in turns and when you do get over too far, they slide predictably. I do like the mich power pures standard size, but the oversize Q2 set up is the best by far.
Last edited by nath981; 12-13-2011 at 05:14 AM.
12-13-2011 | 07:21 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,481
From: Pittsburgh
Thanks, you answered my question. I've only had the S'Hawk since February and on the first set of tires with no idea what "normal" contact patch indicators looks like. So it's the fundamental geometry of tires sized per OE on this bike.
12-13-2011 | 07:24 AM
#5
Thread Starter
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,481
From: Pittsburgh
I am BTW very happy with the performance of this bike/tire combo, but I don't have any other tires/sizes experience so it's an uninformed opinion.
12-13-2011 | 08:59 AM
#6
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 506
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
If you think about it, you get some warning about running out of lean angle when the back tire starts to slide laterally -that you can deal with and play with when you get real comfortable (not on the street preferably 
)
You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
)You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
12-13-2011 | 09:51 AM
#7
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
If you think about it, you get some warning about running out of lean angle when the back tire starts to slide laterally -that you can deal with and play with when you get real comfortable (not on the street preferably )
You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
)You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
4000 miles on this mismatch caused a variety of skid marks.haha Glad to get these tires off is understating.
12-13-2011 | 10:26 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,481
From: Pittsburgh
If you think about it, you get some warning about running out of lean angle when the back tire starts to slide laterally -that you can deal with and play with when you get real comfortable (not on the street preferably )
You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
)You lose the front, you're in a world of hurt. you'll always have a slight bit of unused rubber on a front compared to the rear, they're designed that way. I never mismatch tires from different manufacturers, or put one sport touring/ one sport tire on a bike. Just imagine running a sport touring tire on the front that isn't designed to handle the same kind of lean angles as the sport tire on the rear.
I actually did save a front end slide once a long time ago (riding 2 up with my girlfriend) - but only because there were no oncoming cars so I could straighten up and cross a double yellow line. Never want to get in that situation again!!!
Last edited by CrankenFine; 12-13-2011 at 10:29 AM. Reason: redundant verbiage...
12-13-2011 | 05:25 PM
#9
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 155
From: Sudbury ON
Chicken strips differences will vary from one tire manufacturer to the next. I found the Bridsgestone's fronts are a more rounded tire and don't get close to the edge up whereas the Michelin's are more triangular up front and therefore I could get closer to the edge. Totally different handling characteristics.
12-13-2011 | 06:42 PM
#10
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
I got rid of the chicken strips on my rear last summer on a very tight canyon road east of San Diego. I'd never erased them completely before that. My front still has slightly over 1/4 inch. I'm on my third BT 016 rear, second front.
From my observation of bikes I see with the front tire worn to the edge, about half have rash from a low side.
From my observation of bikes I see with the front tire worn to the edge, about half have rash from a low side.
12-13-2011 | 09:27 PM
#11
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 506
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I experienced both so I understand what you're saying.
I actually did save a front end slide once a long time ago (riding 2 up with my girlfriend) - but only because there were no oncoming cars so I could straighten up and cross a double yellow line. Never want to get in that situation again!!!
I actually did save a front end slide once a long time ago (riding 2 up with my girlfriend) - but only because there were no oncoming cars so I could straighten up and cross a double yellow line. Never want to get in that situation again!!!
Wow, yeah I can see why you don't want to repeat that!
12-13-2011 | 09:34 PM
#12
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 506
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
I find most often when you carry too much corner speed, and have to lean the bike over that far, the "pucker factor" causes the whole human instinct thing to kick in where the first instinct is to apply front brake... If they're already using nearly all the tires capabilities for cornering, it gets real easy to overpower the tire and crash. In this instance, human nature most often causes the rider to grab too much brake, often a mitt full rather than just gently applying or trail braking.
The hawk parts bike I picked up last week has an old, and I mean OLD bridgestone front, and a new Dunlop rear... The front tire is nearly at the wear bars, and is as hard as a hockey puck.
I don't think I've ever fully worn out a front tire. I always figure it this way - I change tires as a set. Having a front that has gone through many heat cycles, and a fresh rear tire seems like a recipe for disaster to me. The back getting a little loose is most often no big deal, the front happens so fast that you're on your *** before your brain registers what just happened...
12-13-2011 | 10:05 PM
#13
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 505
From: Twin Cities
Yep. In my experiance the front strip is nearly always a little bigger than rear. Especially on the street. Almost everyone I ride with has zero on the rear, 1/4'' or so on the front.
Even on the track the front strip is tough to completly get rid of. I did manage to do it on a BT-003rs set. But with every other tire I've used there was always a tiny little bit of chicken strip on the front.
Even on the track the front strip is tough to completly get rid of. I did manage to do it on a BT-003rs set. But with every other tire I've used there was always a tiny little bit of chicken strip on the front.
12-13-2011 | 11:05 PM
#14
über-n00b
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 257
From: S. WI
I concur with others about the front having more strip than the rear.
I would add that the profile has more to do with how much of a strip is left vs how "hard" you ride.
being part of a couple different race teams for a few years, I got to see a few different make/models of tires and how they wear -and not so importantly, the strips.
I've seen club racers at near AMA pace at Road America, with HUGE chicken strips.
You should worry less about the size of the strips and pay more attention to proper tire pressure and looking at the tread to see what it is telling you as far as it's running temp and what your suspension is doing to it (and your ride).
most of the time, you shouldn't mix tire models, but occasionally, a good match is found. ie-Pilot Power frnt / Pilot Road2 rear. I've also heard of PP rear / PP2CT frnt.
pressure dictates temp. temp dictates grip. grip is a slave to suspension. a crappy road surface or riding over your head, can put it all in ditch.
I would add that the profile has more to do with how much of a strip is left vs how "hard" you ride.
being part of a couple different race teams for a few years, I got to see a few different make/models of tires and how they wear -and not so importantly, the strips.
I've seen club racers at near AMA pace at Road America, with HUGE chicken strips.
You should worry less about the size of the strips and pay more attention to proper tire pressure and looking at the tread to see what it is telling you as far as it's running temp and what your suspension is doing to it (and your ride).
most of the time, you shouldn't mix tire models, but occasionally, a good match is found. ie-Pilot Power frnt / Pilot Road2 rear. I've also heard of PP rear / PP2CT frnt.
pressure dictates temp. temp dictates grip. grip is a slave to suspension. a crappy road surface or riding over your head, can put it all in ditch.
12-14-2011 | 06:42 AM
#15
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
I concur with others about the front having more strip than the rear.
I would add that the profile has more to do with how much of a strip is left vs how "hard" you ride.
being part of a couple different race teams for a few years, I got to see a few different make/models of tires and how they wear -and not so importantly, the strips.
I've seen club racers at near AMA pace at Road America, with HUGE chicken
strips.
HUGE......not calling you a liar, but I've never seen this phenomenon where there are tight turns.
You should worry less about the size of the strips and pay more attention to proper tire pressure and looking at the tread to see what it is telling you as far as it's running temp and what your suspension is doing to it (and your ride).
I'm all over my tires like they're my girlfriends, feeling them up, lovingly stroking them, lookin at the curves from all angles, and altering pressure for ambient temp. Most often, suspension needs to be tweaked to tires, sometimes even as they wear, and when going to another set esp when you change to diff tires.
pressure dictates temp. temp dictates grip. grip is a slave to suspension. a crappy road surface or riding over your head, can put it all in ditch.
good way to sum it up
I would add that the profile has more to do with how much of a strip is left vs how "hard" you ride.
being part of a couple different race teams for a few years, I got to see a few different make/models of tires and how they wear -and not so importantly, the strips.
I've seen club racers at near AMA pace at Road America, with HUGE chicken
strips.
HUGE......not calling you a liar, but I've never seen this phenomenon where there are tight turns.
You should worry less about the size of the strips and pay more attention to proper tire pressure and looking at the tread to see what it is telling you as far as it's running temp and what your suspension is doing to it (and your ride).
I'm all over my tires like they're my girlfriends, feeling them up, lovingly stroking them, lookin at the curves from all angles, and altering pressure for ambient temp. Most often, suspension needs to be tweaked to tires, sometimes even as they wear, and when going to another set esp when you change to diff tires.
pressure dictates temp. temp dictates grip. grip is a slave to suspension. a crappy road surface or riding over your head, can put it all in ditch.
good way to sum it up
12-14-2011 | 08:08 AM
#16
über-n00b
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 257
From: S. WI
@nath981 - I cant recall which tire it was, but the front had about a 1/2" strip. the rear had nothing left...in fact, in some pics of our guy it almost looked like the rear tire was about to roll over...but still had strips on the front. weird, I know.
I have also seen 'decent' strips on the fronts of CCS racers at Blackhawk Farms Raceway. fwiw. I think those were BStone DOT race tires.
I have also seen 'decent' strips on the fronts of CCS racers at Blackhawk Farms Raceway. fwiw. I think those were BStone DOT race tires.
12-14-2011 | 08:51 AM
#17
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
Most typical to have 1/2" or more on front with none on rear.
that said, my experiences with Mich power pure chicken strips have proved atypical:
180x55 on 5.5 rim= front and rear strips closer than normal, none rear, 1/8" front. Closest matched set I ever had on relative to front rear edge wear and one of my all time favorite sets. Then I decided to try 190s.
190x55 on 5.5" rim(pics above)= rear 3/4" rear, 1/4" front(some chattering and slid several times exiting turns with too quick release of front brakes). Scary set-up.
Then went to a more rounded tire, the Dunlop Q2, 190x55 on 5.5 rim(pics above) and they are typical in terms of larger strip on front and are awesome. No plans for anything else as this set-up works, at least with the extreme geometry on my bike.
12-14-2011 | 08:37 PM
#18
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 155
From: Sudbury ON
oh, I thought you were referring to huge strips for both tires.
Most typical to have 1/2" or more on front with none on rear.
that said, my experiences with Mich power pure chicken strips have proved atypical:
180x55 on 5.5 rim= front and rear strips closer than normal, none rear, 1/8" front. Closest matched set I ever had on relative to front rear edge wear and one of my all time favorite sets. Then I decided to try 190s.
190x55 on 5.5" rim(pics above)= rear 3/4" rear, 1/4" front(some chattering and slid several times exiting turns with too quick release of front brakes). Scary set-up.
Then went to a more rounded tire, the Dunlop Q2, 190x55 on 5.5 rim(pics above) and they are typical in terms of larger strip on front and are awesome. No plans for anything else as this set-up works, at least with the extreme geometry on my bike.
Most typical to have 1/2" or more on front with none on rear.
that said, my experiences with Mich power pure chicken strips have proved atypical:
180x55 on 5.5 rim= front and rear strips closer than normal, none rear, 1/8" front. Closest matched set I ever had on relative to front rear edge wear and one of my all time favorite sets. Then I decided to try 190s.
190x55 on 5.5" rim(pics above)= rear 3/4" rear, 1/4" front(some chattering and slid several times exiting turns with too quick release of front brakes). Scary set-up.
Then went to a more rounded tire, the Dunlop Q2, 190x55 on 5.5 rim(pics above) and they are typical in terms of larger strip on front and are awesome. No plans for anything else as this set-up works, at least with the extreme geometry on my bike.
I'm assuming you were at the track. What is the difference between the Michelin Pure and Dunlop Q2's as far as turn in stability in corners, etc.?
12-14-2011 | 11:16 PM
#19
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
the pures are a couple lbs lighter which doesn't seem like much, but this weight reduction is at the outermost part of spinning centrifugal portion and therefore translates into a big deal in terms of leaning, stopping, starting, and bump absorption (i.e., reduces stressors on your suspension). It's like putting a $2000 set of wheels on for the price of a set of tires.
The pures are soft and flexible in addition to their light weight and this makes them easy to install and remove. Like i put both of them on myself in a snap without any struggling or drama. In contrast, when i mounted the Q2s, the tire stand wanted to turn with me and i had to enlist a friend to help, and we had to work at it. The front/rear wear characteristics of the pures in terms of profile are matched better than any tires i've tried. Chicken strips front to rear, while a little more at front as normal, are much closer front/rear than the Q2s and all others, so in this regard they are very well matched set and a pleasure to ride.
One negative of the pures is that, probably due to their softness, they have an annoying tendency to follow road surface irregularities and this can be a little disconcerting, esp at lean, at least until you learn to anticipate it. I don't ride too aggressively much at night anymore, but this tendency to squirm could exacerbate the pucker factor a bit if you aren't able to see the surface irregularities as well, like if headlights are comin at ya. They are also more sensitive to air pressure and I didn't like them with much more than 30lbs front and rear as they were noticeably rougher at higher pressures.
So, to summarize, the Pures are awesome for the most part and are a pleasure to ride, are predictable and definitely an enhancement in just about every way compared to the Q2s and/or any other tire. Having said that the Q2s are sticky and predictable tires and i have nothing negative to say about them. Expect about 4000+ miles with either, so not as good as a touring tire, but equal to most sticky sport tires. It is a subjective call in terms of picking a winner, but it's worth the money to try the pures IMO to see if it's right for you.
read more here:
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...er-pure-21660/
The reason I have posted pics and comments above and elsewhere is because I went out on a limb a bit and decided to try the 190x55 Power Pure on the OEM size rim. What i found was that it didn't work as you can see by the abnormal chicken strips, i.e., bigger on rear than front. No good for confidence and wouldn't settle on a line regardless of any suspension/geometry alterations I could think to implement. I was ready to return to the 180x55 power pure when I mounted a 190 Q2 on a friend's 5.5" rim and noticed the profile was nicely rounded like the 180, not steep sided like the typical 190 on a 5.5 rim. As I rode with him, I could see by his speed and stability in turns that this 190 worked like no other on a 5.5"rim. His comments were all superlatives and so I decided to try it on mine. My perceptions concur with his and i will not be looking for another tire as long as i can get this 190 Q2 because it's the best handling, confidence inspiring, stable tire i've ever experienced. The only question is whether to go 190x50 or 55 based on what geometry, seat height, gearing. longevity you might prefer. My friend went with the 190x50 because he wanted to keep his gearing lower and i went with the 190x55 because My gearing is low now and i wanted to try the taller tire. either way, it's a winner in my book, and his.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
