lowered the front, handling greatly improved
05-23-2012 | 10:56 AM
#31
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
The mains shoulnd't affect the lower end that much. I think you need to start wtih the pilots and move up. Also the mains IIRC you said were dynojet mains which for the same size orfice have a larger number. Hence why I hate trying to deal with them. IMHO you are best to go back to stock on the mains but I think you need to make sure what the pilots are at, I forget without going back through the thread and looking, and then work your way up from there to adjusting the needles then the mains. The mains may have a slight affect on the lower systems but it shouldn't be so much that it's not letting it run well at all.
05-23-2012 | 11:16 AM
#32
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
runs like crap pretty much everywhere, I can barely get the bike to go above 3000 RPM...gotta really twist open the throttle and even then it bogs down really bad.
I think the ridiculously huge main jets I have are probably the issue, going to go back to stock and tune from there.
I think the ridiculously huge main jets I have are probably the issue, going to go back to stock and tune from there.
The stock needles are very good, if I didn't have the set of needles I am running (which are pretty much unobtainium now) I would have a set of stock needles in my bike.
So plug the extra lift holes and put the stock stuff back in there and you will be much happier.
05-23-2012 | 11:22 AM
#33
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
So now to pull the thread back on topic.... about pulling the forks up so much and why I said it was a band aid fix....
What you have done by pulling them up like that is made the bike sit properly but the forks are topped out.
With a proper set up you would have approx. 35mm of sag on the front, for the street. So with the forks up 40mm you are right in the range of proper sag and the forks up 5mm in the triples.
The down side is that the forks can't extend for a dip in the road or if the front tire happens to loose traction in a corner.
So what happens is now the whole front of the bike drops instead.
This can lead to some bad things as you can unsettle the chassis at the worst possible moment.
So do yourself a big favor and cut the spacers to the proper length and get the sag set correctly and you will be surprised at how much better the front end will feel and work.
What you have done by pulling them up like that is made the bike sit properly but the forks are topped out.
With a proper set up you would have approx. 35mm of sag on the front, for the street. So with the forks up 40mm you are right in the range of proper sag and the forks up 5mm in the triples.
The down side is that the forks can't extend for a dip in the road or if the front tire happens to loose traction in a corner.
So what happens is now the whole front of the bike drops instead.
This can lead to some bad things as you can unsettle the chassis at the worst possible moment.
So do yourself a big favor and cut the spacers to the proper length and get the sag set correctly and you will be surprised at how much better the front end will feel and work.
05-23-2012 | 11:34 AM
#34
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
So now to pull the thread back on topic.... about pulling the forks up so much and why I said it was a band aid fix....
What you have done by pulling them up like that is made the bike sit properly but the forks are topped out.
With a proper set up you would have approx. 35mm of sag on the front, for the street. So with the forks up 40mm you are right in the range of proper sag and the forks up 5mm in the triples.
The down side is that the forks can't extend for a dip in the road or if the front tire happens to loose traction in a corner.
So what happens is now the whole front of the bike drops instead.
This can lead to some bad things as you can unsettle the chassis at the worst possible moment.
So do yourself a big favor and cut the spacers to the proper length and get the sag set correctly and you will be surprised at how much better the front end will feel and work.
What you have done by pulling them up like that is made the bike sit properly but the forks are topped out.
With a proper set up you would have approx. 35mm of sag on the front, for the street. So with the forks up 40mm you are right in the range of proper sag and the forks up 5mm in the triples.
The down side is that the forks can't extend for a dip in the road or if the front tire happens to loose traction in a corner.
So what happens is now the whole front of the bike drops instead.
This can lead to some bad things as you can unsettle the chassis at the worst possible moment.
So do yourself a big favor and cut the spacers to the proper length and get the sag set correctly and you will be surprised at how much better the front end will feel and work.
I'm not going to mess with the stock forks, they're shitty anyway...the bike goes over bumps perfectly right now....
If I find I want front end improvement I will try to find a different front end to swap in...from what I've seen other forum members have had excellent results from doing that.
I can totally understand why..... with the stock bits and some minor tweaks the bike will pull really hard but I guess you already knew my opinion on that....
The stock needles are very good, if I didn't have the set of needles I am running (which are pretty much unobtainium now) I would have a set of stock needles in my bike.
So plug the extra lift holes and put the stock stuff back in there and you will be much happier.
The stock needles are very good, if I didn't have the set of needles I am running (which are pretty much unobtainium now) I would have a set of stock needles in my bike.
So plug the extra lift holes and put the stock stuff back in there and you will be much happier.
---
8541Hawk, I really do appreciate your concern with respect to the suspension and safety...we literally rode through bumpy mountain roads that would be uncomfortable in most cars, at a 'slow A group' type pace...I had the whole bike bounce on me while leaned over going through turns at speed...if there was an issue that would cause me to crash I would have crashed already.
That said - would your suggestion make for an improvement? Probably? I'm not familiar with motorcycle forks and I'm not going to mess with the internals until I've learned more about them.
Last edited by blamecanada; 05-23-2012 at 11:44 AM.
05-23-2012 | 11:37 AM
#35
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 433
From: Los Angeles & Winston Salem
Mike great advice.
Another avenue you can try nick is to contact indierocker and ask him for his carb set up info. He was running Yoshi pipes. So I'm guessing it would work ok'ish with your single muffler. Also with the port & polish and ignition advancer. His carb info would really be a plus?
Good luck. Steve
Another avenue you can try nick is to contact indierocker and ask him for his carb set up info. He was running Yoshi pipes. So I'm guessing it would work ok'ish with your single muffler. Also with the port & polish and ignition advancer. His carb info would really be a plus?
Good luck. Steve
05-23-2012 | 11:44 AM
#37
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Yeah a USD front end makes it a whole different bike. The stock stuff can be made to work pretty good and sorry yours is fubar'd.
I know the RC front end I have is just amazing... of course it could be because its stuffed with Ohlins bits but even stock it would be worlds better than the forks the bike comes with, then the bigger brakes just add even more.
So start hunting for a 1000rr front end (or whatever flavor you like) and you really will like the improvement.
05-23-2012 | 11:53 AM
#38
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
Mike great advice.
Another avenue you can try nick is to contact indierocker and ask him for his carb set up info. He was running Yoshi pipes. So I'm guessing it would work ok'ish with your single muffler. Also with the port & polish and ignition advancer. His carb info would really be a plus?
Good luck. Steve
Another avenue you can try nick is to contact indierocker and ask him for his carb set up info. He was running Yoshi pipes. So I'm guessing it would work ok'ish with your single muffler. Also with the port & polish and ignition advancer. His carb info would really be a plus?
Good luck. Steve
05-23-2012 | 12:05 PM
#39
Seasoned tech
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 576
From: Issaquah, WA
Well that depends on if it's jacked up due to to long of spacers or to stiff of springs. If the springs are to stiff then no matter of longer or shorter spacers are going to help and vice versa. Do you know what they did to jack up the suspension? Trying to set proper sag with to soft of a spring will result in a ton of preload and the bike will not have any sag unlaiden. Conversely if you have to stiff of springs you'll have them backed off so far that there will be to much unlaiden sag.
Sounds like he either stuffed to big of spacers in, and/or got to stiff of springs for the stock spacers that was in it.
Sounds like he either stuffed to big of spacers in, and/or got to stiff of springs for the stock spacers that was in it.
05-23-2012 | 12:13 PM
#40
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Well I have both those on my bike and it really didn't change much as far as the carbs are concerned, then again every bike is different.
I made a change to the exhaust system that actually made more difference but that is another story....
I made a change to the exhaust system that actually made more difference but that is another story....
05-23-2012 | 01:39 PM
#41
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
You're the only one riding and feeling the bike, so have a much better idea of what's going on and I may just be overly cautious here, but wanted to throw my impressions out there.
05-23-2012 | 01:44 PM
#42
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 344
7moore7, all logical points...haha, I like the way you phrased it "are you going to make changes till you crash and then revert?"
I don't plan on making any other changes, except maybe raising the rear a tiny bit more; I should mention I have another bike setup for racing with good quality suspension stuff on it, an 03 CBR600RR, and the hawk now feels closer to the handling of it than it ever has...the best since I got it...am I denying there might be room for improvement? no, but I think spending some coin is required and I'm not about to do that when the I like where the bike is at.
I need to get the engine running right and then just keep trying to improve my riding, I'm not a retired superbike racer, I've only been riding since October of last year...can't justify dumping tons of money on the equipment when the rider is what needs upgrading.
I don't plan on making any other changes, except maybe raising the rear a tiny bit more; I should mention I have another bike setup for racing with good quality suspension stuff on it, an 03 CBR600RR, and the hawk now feels closer to the handling of it than it ever has...the best since I got it...am I denying there might be room for improvement? no, but I think spending some coin is required and I'm not about to do that when the I like where the bike is at.
I need to get the engine running right and then just keep trying to improve my riding, I'm not a retired superbike racer, I've only been riding since October of last year...can't justify dumping tons of money on the equipment when the rider is what needs upgrading.
Last edited by blamecanada; 05-23-2012 at 01:48 PM.
05-23-2012 | 02:10 PM
#43
Retired- but not tired!
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,481
From: Pittsburgh
and you altered the geometry that far? You're a brave soul.
05-23-2012 | 11:03 PM
#44
Slacker
Superstock
Superstock
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 489
From: San Antonio, TX
Keep in mind this is a Stage 1 kit, calibrated for a stage 1 engine (pistons, cams, valves) The best you will get with a stock engine will be excellent throttle response, 6k - redline will scream(K&N and larger mains), and cruise will be smooth with great mileage. But full throttle roll on from low revs will have a flat spot between 4-6k due to over richness. It should not sputter or surge, just be a bit soft but very smooth in this range.
That single pipe will also kill the midrange and likely produce an overly rich mixture. Leaning the needles may be the fix for your setup.
I am just trying to help you get the best out of what you already have to work with.
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