GasOil....Arrrgh!
04-16-2009 | 10:14 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
GasOil....Arrrgh!
I helped a buddy change the tires on his Goldwing today. Anyone ever done that before? Gotta take the whole back end of the bike off!
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox
which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! 
I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!
So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox
which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
04-17-2009 | 04:23 AM
#7
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 284
From: Warren, NH
Greg- You diddn't like changeing the tires on an Goldwing. The new 1800 are a lot easier with the SS swingarm. Older GW suck!! You really don't want to do a Valkery either.
That sucks about the float valve.
That sucks about the float valve.
04-17-2009 | 04:49 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Good problem solving on your part, but yeah, what a PITA! Good thing you had a the Mighty Vac .... it wouldn't have occurred to me to use it for that - show's you what I know about 'em.
So you're saying don't buy a Goldwing??
So you're saying don't buy a Goldwing??
04-17-2009 | 04:55 AM
#9
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 880
From: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
That could have created a pretty nasty fire, still be careful with that thing, hydro locking plays hell on con rods, in fact it's better to have a full cylinder than 50 to 100 ml of liquid.
Before the Hawk I had a ZX-9, bent a rod from an hydro lock, did 200 kms and lost the rod at 200 km/h, huge fireball, was fun but expensive.
The VTR rods are stouter, if you want to check them, you can use the tail part of a caliper trough the plugs holes (if it fits), and sweep the piston BTDC to ATCD, holding the caliper while the piston push the caliper rod, you should get the same measurements on both cyls, on a bent rod cyl the piston sits lower.
Before the Hawk I had a ZX-9, bent a rod from an hydro lock, did 200 kms and lost the rod at 200 km/h, huge fireball, was fun but expensive.
The VTR rods are stouter, if you want to check them, you can use the tail part of a caliper trough the plugs holes (if it fits), and sweep the piston BTDC to ATCD, holding the caliper while the piston push the caliper rod, you should get the same measurements on both cyls, on a bent rod cyl the piston sits lower.
04-17-2009 | 07:48 AM
#13
WERA #44
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 265
From: About 57 miles south of VIR
The petcock can malfunction and stay open. If your float seats properly, gas will pee out the carb overflows (those black tubes that are tied together between the carbs) and not into the engine.
Petcock rebuild if it happens. No smoking around the Hawk.
Petcock rebuild if it happens. No smoking around the Hawk.
04-17-2009 | 11:11 AM
#15
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 809
From: North Wales, PA
04-17-2009 | 11:59 AM
#17
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
Good thing you didn't get a carb fart during that 30 seconds it was running. I know there must be a flame arrestor in the PCV system, but that could have been one big bang.
Early '70s Chryslers used the crankcase to store fuel vapors for the EVAP, instead of a canister. I know 2 guys who witnessed the valve covers blowing off a 318 V8.
And that was on 2 different cars.
Early '70s Chryslers used the crankcase to store fuel vapors for the EVAP, instead of a canister. I know 2 guys who witnessed the valve covers blowing off a 318 V8.
And that was on 2 different cars.
04-17-2009 | 01:03 PM
#20
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 805
From: Delmar NY
Fluids (Hydro) don't compress. Fill a cylinder full of gas and the piston won't move (lock). Fill it with just a little bit of fluid and the piston moves right up to the point it stops . Thus bent rods.
Not uncommon on civics, tsx, and other jap cars with aftermarket cold air intakes. Drive through a deep puddle, suck up water and your screwed
. Thus bent rods.Not uncommon on civics, tsx, and other jap cars with aftermarket cold air intakes. Drive through a deep puddle, suck up water and your screwed
04-17-2009 | 03:23 PM
#22
guru of things sparky
SuperSport
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 599
From: Grand Prairie , Texas
Goldwing rear tires are the worst to change... especially on 1970's or 1980's models.That and some harleys with spoke wheels.
(shudders)
But if you think thats bad ...
I have a goldwing stator we are rebuilding for a guy that just paid $400 bucks to have the engine removed so he could get the stator off the bike for replacement.
Removal of the engine is standard procedure for anything involving the stator or flywheel on goldwings.
typically a $1200 job. And ZERO fun involved.
(shudders)
But if you think thats bad ...
I have a goldwing stator we are rebuilding for a guy that just paid $400 bucks to have the engine removed so he could get the stator off the bike for replacement.
Removal of the engine is standard procedure for anything involving the stator or flywheel on goldwings.
typically a $1200 job. And ZERO fun involved.
Last edited by Circuit_Burner; 04-17-2009 at 03:26 PM.
04-17-2009 | 08:25 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Administrator
World Champion
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 105,287
From: Fulton, MO
I don't think the rod is bent. I started her up last night after the oil change and she runs great. There was one tiny chunk of black **** that fell into the pan I was draining the gas into. I'm pretty sure that was it, just don't know how it got in there.
As for the petcock, yeah mine has been sticking for years. I guess I've been lucky up until now. I took it apart about 2 years ago, cleaned and lubed it with silicone spray. Guess it didn't work.
As for the petcock, yeah mine has been sticking for years. I guess I've been lucky up until now. I took it apart about 2 years ago, cleaned and lubed it with silicone spray. Guess it didn't work.
04-17-2009 | 09:29 PM
#24
Moderate-whore
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 9,049
From: Leander TX!!
I helped a buddy change the tires on his Goldwing today. Anyone ever done that before? Gotta take the whole back end of the bike off!
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!
So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox
which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
04-17-2009 | 10:44 PM
#25
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
Rods don't bend unless it got almost a full stroke before hitting the hydrostatic lock.
I had a piston and bent rod out of a Camaro in my classroom for the last 20+ years. Worst is sudden head gasket failure with the engine running...piston goes down on intake pulling in coolant, then comes up on compression and that's all she wrote.
I don't think the starter motor on a car or bike has enough torque to bend a rod.
I had a piston and bent rod out of a Camaro in my classroom for the last 20+ years. Worst is sudden head gasket failure with the engine running...piston goes down on intake pulling in coolant, then comes up on compression and that's all she wrote.
I don't think the starter motor on a car or bike has enough torque to bend a rod.
04-18-2009 | 01:56 AM
#26
jet wrench
Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 175
From: cowtown, CA
Rods don't bend unless it got almost a full stroke before hitting the hydrostatic lock.
I had a piston and bent rod out of a Camaro in my classroom for the last 20+ years. Worst is sudden head gasket failure with the engine running...piston goes down on intake pulling in coolant, then comes up on compression and that's all she wrote.
I don't think the starter motor on a car or bike has enough torque to bend a rod.
I had a piston and bent rod out of a Camaro in my classroom for the last 20+ years. Worst is sudden head gasket failure with the engine running...piston goes down on intake pulling in coolant, then comes up on compression and that's all she wrote.
I don't think the starter motor on a car or bike has enough torque to bend a rod.
04-18-2009 | 01:58 AM
#27
jet wrench
Back Marker
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 175
From: cowtown, CA
I helped a buddy change the tires on his Goldwing today. Anyone ever done that before? Gotta take the whole back end of the bike off!
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!
So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
So after wrenching for hours we were going to go for a short ride. I wanted to ride the VTR since I hadn't had her out yet this year. I started her up and she was only running on one cylinder. Hmmm, didn't do this a couple weeks ago when I started it for the first time this spring. Oh well, gotta take the 1000RR. Darn.
Get back from the ride and there's a huge puddle of gas on the garage floor under the bike. Holy crap! So I knock the carbs with a screwdriver handle a couple of times and try to start the bike....click, click. WTF?!?! Hydro lock!
Turns out a float valve had stuck open, filled the airbox
which then ran over to the other carb and filled that cylinder too! I Mity-vac'd about 360ml of gas from the rear cylinder and another 50ml from the front, and probably 500 ml from the airbox and carb throats. What a PITA!So I pull the carbs, get everything cleaned up and the bike starts up pretty easily. I shut her down after about 30 seconds and pull the oil cap. GasOil! 4 quarts of Mobil 1 shot to ****!
I went to Walmart to get more oil smelling like a friggin refinery!
T'was in interesting day.
04-19-2009 | 01:36 AM
#28
Member
Squid
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 31
From: Washington, IA
Had the same thing happen back in November. Started to run badly, got home, parked it for the night. Next morning, Big puddle of gas underneath the bike, leaking from Y-pipe.
Rolled her out into the alley, flipped the kill switch off, hit the ignition and just blew all the gas out the pipes! Quite the show, but stunk the place up pretty bad. Checked the oil, it was half gas, so I changed it out, and left for Iraq again...
My pal Phil has redone the carbs, and is waiting for a new petcock diaphragm to show up, so he can test ride her. Oh yeah, he installed my Penske shock too! Hope it's done when I get home next month.
Cheers!
Rolled her out into the alley, flipped the kill switch off, hit the ignition and just blew all the gas out the pipes! Quite the show, but stunk the place up pretty bad. Checked the oil, it was half gas, so I changed it out, and left for Iraq again...
My pal Phil has redone the carbs, and is waiting for a new petcock diaphragm to show up, so he can test ride her. Oh yeah, he installed my Penske shock too! Hope it's done when I get home next month.
Cheers!
04-20-2009 | 12:53 AM
#29
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 987
From: San Diego, CA
I'd like to pull my engine and see out of my junker. Hydrolocked a 302 V8 on seafoam while starting and the engine made only 55psi on one cylinder after that. I've seen a few that buckled but stayed intact and didn't grenade the motor.
Plus those bike internals are smaller in comparison.
04-20-2009 | 05:32 AM
#30
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 880
From: Victoriaville, Quebec, Canada
It's related to the amount of fluid trapped in the cylinder and crank speed, at TDC the starter have an infinite leverage, at 90°BTDC, the starter has minimal leverage, the combustion chambers have around 50 cc, dump 60 ml of fluid in an intake throat, you will bend a rod, dump 250 cc, not so likely.
Take it as : piston displacement/crank degrees = starter leverage.
I had trouble with # 2cyl carb, hydrolocked and threw #2 rod trough the crankcase two week later, the engine had a weird vibration at specific RPM's
I still have that banged up piston/rod somewhere.
I don't want to be alarmist, the odds are probably more that it's ok, but I'm calling a measurement since that locking the rear wheel is a really bad experience and if it happens in a curve, oh ****, a quick clutch grab saved the day, even the week
The one thing I remember, when I hydrolocked the bike, is a loud heavy metalic "klinggg", beeing young and stupid I took the bike to the redline several times and it was ok, until a long medium speed run, hot pots formed.
But hey it was a Kawasaki
Take it as : piston displacement/crank degrees = starter leverage.
I had trouble with # 2cyl carb, hydrolocked and threw #2 rod trough the crankcase two week later, the engine had a weird vibration at specific RPM's
I still have that banged up piston/rod somewhere.
I don't want to be alarmist, the odds are probably more that it's ok, but I'm calling a measurement since that locking the rear wheel is a really bad experience and if it happens in a curve, oh ****, a quick clutch grab saved the day, even the week
The one thing I remember, when I hydrolocked the bike, is a loud heavy metalic "klinggg", beeing young and stupid I took the bike to the redline several times and it was ok, until a long medium speed run, hot pots formed.
But hey it was a Kawasaki
Last edited by gboezio; 04-20-2009 at 05:41 AM.
