Electrical issue...no spark at the plugs (troubleshooting done)
05-17-2011 | 05:16 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 17
Electrical issue...no spark at the plugs (troubleshooting done)
G'day guys!
Aussie checking in - I have read your forums for months and just recently signed up - great place.
I have a black 05 VTR1000f Firestorm
or a Superhawk!!
So, rode my bike, fine, parked, hour later, hopped on and it wouldnt start.
What i have checked:
1. no spark at plugs
2. checked the kill switch on the handle bars, the clutch and the kick stand with the multimeter, belled them out....and it all seemed ok although i have been led to believe the kick stand kill switch can be a bit tricky???
3. checked pickup that sits behind the clutch cover, wasnt getting 0.7V peak voltage, changed that, now getting 0.7V all the way to the Ignition Control Module (located behind my rear cowl) but after the ICM i should be getting 100V but im not
3. where the ICM plugs into a mini loom under the seat that has 2 wires coming out to the ignition coil #2 i pluged the multimeter into the ignition coil, checked impedance and got really low impedance, what number should i be expecting from the ignition coil.
i dont want to go ahead and replace the ICM ($800 AUS) on a whim, although i think its a pretty good diagnosis...
any thoughts or suggestions guys would be greatly appreciated!!
Cheers,
Warren
Aussie checking in - I have read your forums for months and just recently signed up - great place.
I have a black 05 VTR1000f Firestorm
or a Superhawk!!So, rode my bike, fine, parked, hour later, hopped on and it wouldnt start.
What i have checked:
1. no spark at plugs
2. checked the kill switch on the handle bars, the clutch and the kick stand with the multimeter, belled them out....and it all seemed ok although i have been led to believe the kick stand kill switch can be a bit tricky???
3. checked pickup that sits behind the clutch cover, wasnt getting 0.7V peak voltage, changed that, now getting 0.7V all the way to the Ignition Control Module (located behind my rear cowl) but after the ICM i should be getting 100V but im not
3. where the ICM plugs into a mini loom under the seat that has 2 wires coming out to the ignition coil #2 i pluged the multimeter into the ignition coil, checked impedance and got really low impedance, what number should i be expecting from the ignition coil.
i dont want to go ahead and replace the ICM ($800 AUS) on a whim, although i think its a pretty good diagnosis...
any thoughts or suggestions guys would be greatly appreciated!!
Cheers,
Warren
Last edited by executioner; 05-17-2011 at 05:31 PM.
05-17-2011 | 05:32 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 17
yea checked them - seemed ok... :-S
how would i check the side stand switch, i just belled it out?? is that enough? apparently its a common issue!!
but the kill switch on the side stand should be bypassed if the clutch is pulled in or the bikes in neutral?? so that eliminates that!
how would i check the side stand switch, i just belled it out?? is that enough? apparently its a common issue!!
but the kill switch on the side stand should be bypassed if the clutch is pulled in or the bikes in neutral?? so that eliminates that!
Last edited by executioner; 05-17-2011 at 05:53 PM.
05-18-2011 | 04:35 AM
#5
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
WTF is "belled out"? Measure continuity... The switches are simple, in one position there is continuty, in the other there is not... Other than that I would suggest bypassing the switches with a small wire/paperclip... Then you know it's not those...
The boxes are the same 97-01 and 02-> but not interchangeable between the two generations, the plugs don't match... A better option is to find another VTR owner locally, and swap the boxes temporarily to test...
The boxes are the same 97-01 and 02-> but not interchangeable between the two generations, the plugs don't match... A better option is to find another VTR owner locally, and swap the boxes temporarily to test...
Last edited by Tweety; 05-18-2011 at 04:39 AM.
05-18-2011 | 06:58 AM
#7
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
One quick note . . . I don't think pulling the clutch in bypasses the side stand switch. If I put my bike in gear with the side stand down, the bike quits even if the clutch is pulled in. Only neutral bypasses the side stand switch (on my bike at least, a 1998 model).
05-18-2011 | 08:00 AM
#8
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
They both needs to be in the right position to close the circuit... So no, neither bypass each other, they are complementing each other...
Gear and stand is always going to mean the engine is cut... Holding the clutch makes it possible to start the bike in gear though...
Gear and stand is always going to mean the engine is cut... Holding the clutch makes it possible to start the bike in gear though...
05-18-2011 | 01:01 PM
#9
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
If you said you're getting .7 volts to the CDI and ignition box, check and make sure that you're getting full 12v to one of the pins too. It runs directly from the kill switch to the box and I don't remember which pin its on.
If you look at the diagnostic portion of the manual it tells you which one to be checking for the (+) and (-) pin of the boxes because they both have constant live and ground (with all switches closed atleast).
If you look at the diagnostic portion of the manual it tells you which one to be checking for the (+) and (-) pin of the boxes because they both have constant live and ground (with all switches closed atleast).
05-18-2011 | 05:24 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 17
cheers man ill check and confirm that when i get home.
if i want to replace the CDI unit, do i have to replace the ICM as well?! :-S
didnt think i needed too, i thought the ICM was the "brains" and the CDI was just a step up transformer...
how do i check the R/R ??? from what i have read in other forums this usually causes the CDI to die...am i right?
if i want to replace the CDI unit, do i have to replace the ICM as well?! :-S
didnt think i needed too, i thought the ICM was the "brains" and the CDI was just a step up transformer...
how do i check the R/R ??? from what i have read in other forums this usually causes the CDI to die...am i right?
Last edited by executioner; 05-18-2011 at 05:41 PM.
05-19-2011 | 10:36 AM
#11
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
how do i check the R/R ??? from what i have read in other forums this usually causes the CDI to die...am i right?
If you want to double check your R/R
http://www.electrosport.com/media/pd...ng-diagram.pdf
And you should be getting the same impedance from the rear and front coil, so double check against that because I don't remember the spec but it doesn't sound like a coil issue to me because the likelyhood of both coils going out at the same time is very rare.
I know that if you check from the inside of the spark plug wire to the frame/ground you should be at apprx. 15kohms. That's for the secondary coil.
05-21-2011 | 06:43 AM
#14
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
OK... And now that you have "fixed" the symptoms, go back and fix the actual problem, before something else fails on you... The underlying problem in most cases when CDI's, R/R' and batteries fail, is resistance and or bad grounding in the electric system...
I have yet to see a CDI spontaneously fail on it's own from one ride to another, without there being another problem at the root of it... And unless you fix that, you might end up swapping CDI's a bit more often than you like...
I have yet to see a CDI spontaneously fail on it's own from one ride to another, without there being another problem at the root of it... And unless you fix that, you might end up swapping CDI's a bit more often than you like...
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