DIY Chain replacement....?
10-08-2009 | 08:45 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 987
From: San Diego, CA
DIY Chain replacement....?
Yeah I searched, but the info is scattered across 50 threads and hard to sort out.
My chain has a crapload of miles on it and is sticky in places and stretched in others. I've decided after today I'm going to park it until I have a new chain on there, it just isn't safe.
I have some questions...
Can a stock-length chain be purchased and installed without removing the swingarm? Seems like it should be possible since it looks the swingarm attaches to the back of the engine, not the frame.
If not, then I guess I buy a 520 chain, cut it and clip it while it's on the bike, right?
How do I remove links from the 520 chain? Do I need a special tool, if so, what/where do you recommend getting?
Same question for clipping the new chain, what tool/method do you recommend?
Are the specialty tools to do it correctly cost-prohibitive, to where I should just take it to a shop? I do all my own car ****, so I don't mind investing in tools, I don't plan on getting out of bikes anytime soon and I loathe paying shops to do stuff I can figure out myself.
What chains do you buy for your own bike? I'm going to have this for awhile so I don't want to go cheap. Looks like DID is popular though. I see all sorts of debate about what clips are better, I guess there is no one answer.
Is this a good start? The most expensive DID chain I see listed on this site, claims to be long-lasting. Or what about IZUMI?
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...fCatId=&mmyId=
And lastly, is sprocket replacement normal maintenance? Any trick to determining if they need to be replaced? The rear teeth look fine at 35K miles, not sure if they're the original sprockets. The bike has had an easy life. I'm wondering if riding with a stretched chain could've damaged the sprockets, and I've heard about them being out of round which causes the chain to stretch worse. I'm at the end of my adjustment now, and the chain seems to loosen up by the day, even though I keep it waxed. I like the gearing, so I wouldn't mess with that, just want this bike to go another 35K reliably.
My chain has a crapload of miles on it and is sticky in places and stretched in others. I've decided after today I'm going to park it until I have a new chain on there, it just isn't safe.
I have some questions...
Can a stock-length chain be purchased and installed without removing the swingarm? Seems like it should be possible since it looks the swingarm attaches to the back of the engine, not the frame.
If not, then I guess I buy a 520 chain, cut it and clip it while it's on the bike, right?
How do I remove links from the 520 chain? Do I need a special tool, if so, what/where do you recommend getting?
Same question for clipping the new chain, what tool/method do you recommend?
Are the specialty tools to do it correctly cost-prohibitive, to where I should just take it to a shop? I do all my own car ****, so I don't mind investing in tools, I don't plan on getting out of bikes anytime soon and I loathe paying shops to do stuff I can figure out myself.
What chains do you buy for your own bike? I'm going to have this for awhile so I don't want to go cheap. Looks like DID is popular though. I see all sorts of debate about what clips are better, I guess there is no one answer.
Is this a good start? The most expensive DID chain I see listed on this site, claims to be long-lasting. Or what about IZUMI?
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...fCatId=&mmyId=
And lastly, is sprocket replacement normal maintenance? Any trick to determining if they need to be replaced? The rear teeth look fine at 35K miles, not sure if they're the original sprockets. The bike has had an easy life. I'm wondering if riding with a stretched chain could've damaged the sprockets, and I've heard about them being out of round which causes the chain to stretch worse. I'm at the end of my adjustment now, and the chain seems to loosen up by the day, even though I keep it waxed. I like the gearing, so I wouldn't mess with that, just want this bike to go another 35K reliably.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; 10-08-2009 at 08:52 AM.
10-08-2009 | 09:41 AM
#2
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 308
Any chain you buy is going to come in one long length (not a loop). So you're going to have to join the chain on the bike. IF the chain comes with a "press fit" master link (what you have pictured above with the DID520ZVM2), you will need a chain press to attach the 2 sides of the master. It looks like this 
They cost between $15 and $75
If your chain comes with a "clip" style master link, you don't need a chain press. Some raceing series ban "clip" style chains...some people swear they are unsafe. Ask around/do your own research and make up your own opinion.
To get your old chain off, you have many options.
Option #1 is the easiest....get a dremel or small angle grinder, and simply cut the chain.
Option #2. Requires a chain breaker ($4 to $75 depending on brand/style)
This one's 3.95
Regarding sprockets...if the teeth have lost more than 1/3 of their height...it's time to replace the sprocket. IF the teeth are wearing more on one side than the other (teeth look like shark fins rather than upside V) then i'd replace em. But if the teeth look to be in good shape, and have most (or all) of the original height...keep em. No sense wasting money.
They cost between $15 and $75If your chain comes with a "clip" style master link, you don't need a chain press. Some raceing series ban "clip" style chains...some people swear they are unsafe. Ask around/do your own research and make up your own opinion.
To get your old chain off, you have many options.
Option #1 is the easiest....get a dremel or small angle grinder, and simply cut the chain.
Option #2. Requires a chain breaker ($4 to $75 depending on brand/style)
Regarding sprockets...if the teeth have lost more than 1/3 of their height...it's time to replace the sprocket. IF the teeth are wearing more on one side than the other (teeth look like shark fins rather than upside V) then i'd replace em. But if the teeth look to be in good shape, and have most (or all) of the original height...keep em. No sense wasting money.
10-08-2009 | 09:51 AM
#3
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
And a side note since RPV-Hawk covered most other stuff..... Stock chain and sprockets are 530, so unless your sprockets are already changed, buy a 530 chain... Or a full 520 set...
As for chain life, a good X ring chain from a reputable brand (DID and others) will last you a good long while if taken care of...
Clean the sprockets real good and feel the teeth, you are correct a "bad" chain can wear the sprockets so they eat the new chain faster... You can usually feel an edge on the flat side of the sprocket if that has happened...
As for chain life, a good X ring chain from a reputable brand (DID and others) will last you a good long while if taken care of...
Clean the sprockets real good and feel the teeth, you are correct a "bad" chain can wear the sprockets so they eat the new chain faster... You can usually feel an edge on the flat side of the sprocket if that has happened...
Last edited by Tweety; 10-08-2009 at 09:54 AM.
10-08-2009 | 09:51 AM
#4
Destructive Tester
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 263
From: N.E. oHIo
As with anything else, you get what you pay for.
Cheep chains won't last as long as a better quality chain ( we're assuming that both chains receive appropriate attention during their life span ).
The same applies to chain tools...check out Motion Pro as well as the chain mfgr's tools. You have to have the correct tools for the job at hand.
Have your shop manual at hand.
Don't install a new chain on used sprockets.
This is the bestest chain lube I've ever found.
Rex
Cheep chains won't last as long as a better quality chain ( we're assuming that both chains receive appropriate attention during their life span ).
The same applies to chain tools...check out Motion Pro as well as the chain mfgr's tools. You have to have the correct tools for the job at hand.
Have your shop manual at hand.
Don't install a new chain on used sprockets.
This is the bestest chain lube I've ever found.
Rex
10-08-2009 | 09:58 AM
#7
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,707
From: Essex, UK
In the Official Honda VTR1000F Service Manual (61MBB05) 3-15 – 3-18 it clearly states the Firestorm "uses a drive chain with a staked (riveted) master link." - "CAUTION: A drive chain with a clip-type master link must not be used."
nuff said
Removing the chain is simple with an angle grinder to remove the old rivet head link. Putting the new chain & link requires a special tool to help secure the rivet head on the link.
10-08-2009 | 11:15 AM
#8
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,804
From: Atlanta, GA
All good advice. I have used a clip style master link with no problems. YMMV. I would go with RK or DID chain. My one experience with EK was not good, but in fairness to EK it was not their best chain. I found a top of the line RK (520GXW) on Ebay from an individual and paid about half what it would have cost from a dealer.
I have a 520 setup on my bike now, but if I had to do it again I would probably go with 530 for longevity; the difference in performance is not noticeable. 520 looks "cooler" though.
I have also pressed on a rivet style master link using patience and vise grips and a small punch to peen the rivet heads. Works great. This advice was given to me by a long time mechanic.
I have a 520 setup on my bike now, but if I had to do it again I would probably go with 530 for longevity; the difference in performance is not noticeable. 520 looks "cooler" though.
I have also pressed on a rivet style master link using patience and vise grips and a small punch to peen the rivet heads. Works great. This advice was given to me by a long time mechanic.
Last edited by killer5280; 10-08-2009 at 11:23 AM.
10-08-2009 | 12:07 PM
#9
Member
Squid
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 43
From: Camden, NJ
Well, unlike Killer, I've had great experience with EK chains, but I've only bought their better chains. A similarly priced DID chain is comparable to the EK. I've never tried RK.
If you want to avoid spending money for a chain tool you can get the EK screw-type master link(you have to use an EK chain). I have one on right now because I wanted to try it out. You just need a box wrench to rivet the chain together, and if you follow the directions it works just like a rivet link (has the same strength rating).
If you want to avoid spending money for a chain tool you can get the EK screw-type master link(you have to use an EK chain). I have one on right now because I wanted to try it out. You just need a box wrench to rivet the chain together, and if you follow the directions it works just like a rivet link (has the same strength rating).
10-08-2009 | 01:53 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 987
From: San Diego, CA
How do I determine if I have 520 or 530 sprockets? What do I measure? I have no idea what's on there now, bought it with 20K on it.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
10-08-2009 | 01:57 PM
#11
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
How do I determine if I have 520 or 530 sprockets? What do I measure? I have no idea what's on there now, bought it with 20K on it.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
If they are the stock Honda parts, they have markings on them... (atleast mine had...) if not they usually have the name or logo of the aftermarket company making them on the side... I'd start by looking for that...
10-08-2009 | 02:15 PM
#13
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...Id=&mmyId=2028
And a tool that should work decent for removing the old and installing the new chain...
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...afCatId=&mmyId=
And a tool that should work decent for removing the old and installing the new chain...
http://www.denniskirk.com/jsp/produc...afCatId=&mmyId=
10-08-2009 | 04:35 PM
#14
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 117
From: Santa Cruz, CA
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums...d.php?t=311985
some instructions on how to use the mini chain tool.
some instructions on how to use the mini chain tool.
10-08-2009 | 04:35 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 987
From: San Diego, CA
Ok, so I found out a 520 sprocket is 20/80ths thick (1/4"). A 530 sprocket is 30/80ths thick (3/8").
So I can measure that, and I'll go with a 530 unless maybe I happen to have 520's on there now that are in good shape. Thicker sprocket should mean less wear.
As for tools, this guy sells a setup for $25 if I buy a chain there.
DID type Drive Chain Rivet Tool
Drive Chain Riveter Tool - Rivets high strength rear drive chain Rivet links with
hollow pin ends as on our IZUMI 530HT Chain ( Rivet link #56-0235 ) and many
DID brand chains. This quality tool is sold by Mikes XS at below cost.
Note: Discount of $25.00 for this tool if you purchase any IZUMI chain at
the same time.
Part #35-0005 $25.00 USD Ea.ADD TO CART
So I can measure that, and I'll go with a 530 unless maybe I happen to have 520's on there now that are in good shape. Thicker sprocket should mean less wear.
As for tools, this guy sells a setup for $25 if I buy a chain there.
DID type Drive Chain Rivet Tool
Drive Chain Riveter Tool - Rivets high strength rear drive chain Rivet links with
hollow pin ends as on our IZUMI 530HT Chain ( Rivet link #56-0235 ) and many
DID brand chains. This quality tool is sold by Mikes XS at below cost.
Note: Discount of $25.00 for this tool if you purchase any IZUMI chain at
the same time.
Part #35-0005 $25.00 USD Ea.ADD TO CART
10-08-2009 | 05:28 PM
#17
Duc Hawk
SuperSport
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 691
From: Malibu's canyons
I bought a 102 link, 1000cc rated, 530 X-Ring RK chain from these guys...http://www.motorcycleproshop.com/det...t_id=1223-0109
They sell it for the cheapest price I could find for that chain. Even after including shipping and CA tax it's pretty close to $100 to your door.
The also sell JT steel sprockets. I picked up a 15/43 sprocket combo and the chain above for a grand total of $150 shipped.
I couldn't find any kit, with a quality chain and steel sprockets, anywhere near that price on ebay or anywhere else.
They sell it for the cheapest price I could find for that chain. Even after including shipping and CA tax it's pretty close to $100 to your door.
The also sell JT steel sprockets. I picked up a 15/43 sprocket combo and the chain above for a grand total of $150 shipped.
I couldn't find any kit, with a quality chain and steel sprockets, anywhere near that price on ebay or anywhere else.
Last edited by Moto Man; 10-08-2009 at 09:05 PM.
10-08-2009 | 06:52 PM
#18
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 286
From: texas
http://www.sprocketcenter.com/p/3703...00f-97-06.html they sell chain and sprocket set. they make it easy you can even play with gearing if you want. i wont get into clip style master links LOL.
10-08-2009 | 08:33 PM
#19
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
If you order a kit, make sure it has the correct number of teeth on the sprockets, unless you want to go to lower gearing. The kit I ordered was supposed to have stock gearing, but when I opened it at the dealer to check, it had a 43 tooth rear. So I had to order the sprockets separately. I went with steel after the parts guy said he's gotten as little as 3,000 miles out of an aluminum sprocket. The OEM replacement Al sprocket, which obviously wears well, is $169 list.
I also have just under 35,000 on the original chain, but I'm planning on replacing it soon. All 3 of my previous bikes were shaft drive (Honda CX500, Honda CB700SC and BMW R100RS), so this is the first time I've had to deal with chain and sprocket replacement as well.
I also have just under 35,000 on the original chain, but I'm planning on replacing it soon. All 3 of my previous bikes were shaft drive (Honda CX500, Honda CB700SC and BMW R100RS), so this is the first time I've had to deal with chain and sprocket replacement as well.
10-25-2009 | 01:06 PM
#20
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
10-25-2009 | 11:31 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 987
From: San Diego, CA
Parts should be here any day now.
Sprockets look fine surprisingly, they must be replacements.
The chain on there is a DID o-ring chain with rivet link and it looks BAD! The rivet link is stretched all to hell. I should take a pic, I'm surprised it didn't jump ship and lock up my tire or something.
Sprockets look fine surprisingly, they must be replacements.
The chain on there is a DID o-ring chain with rivet link and it looks BAD! The rivet link is stretched all to hell. I should take a pic, I'm surprised it didn't jump ship and lock up my tire or something.
10-26-2009 | 02:17 AM
#23
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
Also to answer a couple of the OP questions :
Yes you can put a endless loop chain on by just removing the left foot peg bracket.
To remove the chain a dremel or bolt cutters work just fine and most times it is easier and quicker to just cut the old chain off instead of trying to push a couple of rivets out.
I use a RK chain tool but the Motion Pro is nice also. I never used a DID tool so I could tell you on that one.
10-26-2009 | 08:43 AM
#24
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
I checked the front vortex sprocket and their was lateral play in excess of the OEM sprocket, so I ordered a chrome moly drilled AFAM front and a workslite alloy 520 AFAM for the rear. Hopfully these will prove more relaible. If not, it's back to steel.
www.sprocketcenter.com
www.sprocketcenter.com
05-05-2010 | 03:49 PM
#26
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2
At 15K miles, I replaced both sprockets and the chain without cutting the old chain off.
I bought the chain + sprocket kit from Dennis Kirk and had the new chain pressed at a local shop.
You can get the old chain off if you can take your back wheel off and the one small front peg allen bolt. You'll be able to jimmy the chain through and off if you can do both of those. You'll have to rotate the foot peg around with a mallet maybe.
PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS IS FROWNED UPON DOING IT THAT WAY! I just didn't want to buy more flippin' tools for a one time job.
I bought the chain + sprocket kit from Dennis Kirk and had the new chain pressed at a local shop.
You can get the old chain off if you can take your back wheel off and the one small front peg allen bolt. You'll be able to jimmy the chain through and off if you can do both of those. You'll have to rotate the foot peg around with a mallet maybe.
PLEASE TELL ME IF THIS IS FROWNED UPON DOING IT THAT WAY! I just didn't want to buy more flippin' tools for a one time job.
05-05-2010 | 05:46 PM
#27
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 347
From: S.Dak USA
How do I determine if I have 520 or 530 sprockets? What do I measure? I have no idea what's on there now, bought it with 20K on it.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
I don't care if the chain looks pretty or gains me 1/100th of a second in the 1/4 mile for weighing 3 milligrams less.
That 2nd brand I posted sells chains in the stock length. Anything else would require shortening, I presume with the same method I'd use to remove my worn chain.
Chain size.. Pitch.. Inner roller width
415.. 1/2.. 3/16
420.. 1/2.. 1/4
520.. 5/8.. 1/4
525.. 5/8.. 5/16
530.. 5/8.. 3/8
630.. 3/4.. 3/8
For some reason the spacing on this post keeps screwing up... but the chart should be self explanatory.
Last edited by steve.g; 05-05-2010 at 05:57 PM.
05-05-2010 | 09:10 PM
#28
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 667
From: NY State
I run a 530 DID XRing chain with a 43 (+2) in the rear, and stock up front (I forget the # teeth). I needed 104 links to get it to fit, the 102 was too short. I was running -1 up front and stock in the rear, I like the stock front / 43 rear better.
I replaced both sprockets with Sunstar steel and DID XRing - gold looks cool.
I replaced both sprockets with Sunstar steel and DID XRing - gold looks cool.
05-06-2010 | 09:00 PM
#29
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 348
From: Melbourne Australia
Regarding clip links, I'v been riding for 20 years, i worked as a motorcycle messanger for 5 years working monday-friday, 7am-7pm (12 hour days) averaging 100,000 k's a year & always used clip link's on my Regina gold chains, never had a problem.
05-09-2010 | 12:00 PM
#30
Spanner Monkey
Squid
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 7
From: High Peak, Derbyshire
DIY Chain replacement...
Hi there, just thought i'd drop a link to a write up of my chain and sprocket replacement that i have just done this week...hope you find some of it helpful.
If anyone would like it putting on this site let me know,
http://www.haymouth.co.uk/phpBB3/vie...p?f=31&t=16500
If anyone would like it putting on this site let me know,
http://www.haymouth.co.uk/phpBB3/vie...p?f=31&t=16500
