Carb Questions, Yet again...
08-24-2014 | 06:39 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
Carb Questions, Yet again...
So I had Followed Hawks set up guide and have been tweeking it ever since. I swapped from Dan Moto GP pipes to D&D and seemed that my issues had improved. I went down from 48 to 45 pilots and made a difference and all was well with the bike, not great but good enough. Well, after getting the bike back on the road I am having surging at 2800-3900 RPM where the bike will surge and "Carb Fart" at maintenance throttle. @ 4k+ it is fine. I do believe that it is my front cylinder since the carb sync cap keeps coming up missing after nearly every ride. Also since the start of this season it tends to bake fire upon deceleration. WOT is good and no bogging or hesitation. Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks
08-24-2014 | 10:40 PM
#2
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
Would it be OK to remove my Carb Coolant lines temporarily. I know they are used to bring the carbs up to temp, but would by-passing them cause the results of tuning them be different when I hook them back up? How many people here leave the carbs By-passed? The reason for this question is for access to the mixture screws and to remove and install the carbs easily and efficiently.
08-25-2014 | 12:05 AM
#3
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
So I had Followed Hawks set up guide and have been tweeking it ever since. I swapped from Dan Moto GP pipes to D&D and seemed that my issues had improved. I went down from 48 to 45 pilots and made a difference and all was well with the bike, not great but good enough. Well, after getting the bike back on the road I am having surging at 2800-3900 RPM where the bike will surge and "Carb Fart" at maintenance throttle. @ 4k+ it is fine. I do believe that it is my front cylinder since the carb sync cap keeps coming up missing after nearly every ride. Also since the start of this season it tends to bake fire upon deceleration. WOT is good and no bogging or hesitation. Any ideas would be helpful. Thanks
I removed my carb heaters ages ago, no problems. But doesnt get that cold here.
08-25-2014 | 01:23 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
So bump back up to 48 pilots? does the idle circuit come into play when maintaining constant throttle between 2800-3900 RPM or am I looking at a different issue there all together?
08-25-2014 | 05:39 PM
#5
Rex Kramer-Thrill Seeker
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,312
From: Brookfield, WI
You have stock needles with a .020" shim?
I'm not sure if a carb fart means you are lean or rich. I think you might be rich. So, the needles need to be dropped (making them leaner). Wait for someone else to chime in before taking my advice though. I'm no expert man.
About the carb heater lines, I recently removed mine with no ill effects. This has been discussed here before though. Just search.
All I did was run a coolant line from the water pump cover to the thermostat housing. Made the line slightly longer, so it lays down in the "V" of the engine block. Makes for a cleaner look and it's easier to get your hands in there to adjust the fuel screws. I also heard that some people simply plug the lines.
I'm not sure if a carb fart means you are lean or rich. I think you might be rich. So, the needles need to be dropped (making them leaner). Wait for someone else to chime in before taking my advice though. I'm no expert man.
About the carb heater lines, I recently removed mine with no ill effects. This has been discussed here before though. Just search.
All I did was run a coolant line from the water pump cover to the thermostat housing. Made the line slightly longer, so it lays down in the "V" of the engine block. Makes for a cleaner look and it's easier to get your hands in there to adjust the fuel screws. I also heard that some people simply plug the lines.
Last edited by CruxGNZ; 08-25-2014 at 05:42 PM.
08-25-2014 | 06:53 PM
#6
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 273
From: Pompano Beach, Fl.
Ok, I live at sea level and you are at about 1200' so if anything yours should be tuned even more lean than mine. Look at my setup which runs perfect and duplicate it. I've tried everything else and only this setup below works well.
08-25-2014 | 07:18 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
You have stock needles with a .020" shim?
I'm not sure if a carb fart means you are lean or rich. I think you might be rich. So, the needles need to be dropped (making them leaner). Wait for someone else to chime in before taking my advice though. I'm no expert man.
About the carb heater lines, I recently removed mine with no ill effects. This has been discussed here before though. Just search.
All I did was run a coolant line from the water pump cover to the thermostat housing. Made the line slightly longer, so it lays down in the "V" of the engine block. Makes for a cleaner look and it's easier to get your hands in there to adjust the fuel screws. I also heard that some people simply plug the lines.
I'm not sure if a carb fart means you are lean or rich. I think you might be rich. So, the needles need to be dropped (making them leaner). Wait for someone else to chime in before taking my advice though. I'm no expert man.
About the carb heater lines, I recently removed mine with no ill effects. This has been discussed here before though. Just search.
All I did was run a coolant line from the water pump cover to the thermostat housing. Made the line slightly longer, so it lays down in the "V" of the engine block. Makes for a cleaner look and it's easier to get your hands in there to adjust the fuel screws. I also heard that some people simply plug the lines.
Well, I got it 98% dialed in. I am running 45 pilots, stock mains, DJ needles both clips at #3 and the shim removed from the front slide, DJ springs, and the AF screws at 1.5 turns rear and 1.75 front. I still have the farts at 3-4k but no surging and a $h!t ton of power. Just messing around since I had the DJ kit when I bought the bike a long time ago I decided to mix and match, well it worked for the most part.
Also, If you decide to Bypass the Carb Heater lines, the line that comes off the H2o pump reaches the T-stat. All you have to do is take 1 inch off the length and Viola!
Last edited by Squid; 08-25-2014 at 07:30 PM. Reason: Additions info
08-25-2014 | 07:48 PM
#9
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
I am also @ sea level so if This does not work out for me in the long run then I will give it a try, thanks. Your MPGs are Amazing! I get 35 at best.
08-25-2014 | 07:50 PM
#10
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
08-26-2014 | 07:18 PM
#11
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Yes, that is correct. The thermostat shuts off the flow soon after the engine is started, so it's not normally a big deal. I didn't trust that it shuts off completely, that's why I bypassed mine.
08-27-2014 | 02:07 PM
#12
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
The issues you are having is due to running the Dyno jet springs, though the needles could be an issue also.
I didn't run these parts for a reason, in fact I came up with that carb set up after removing all the DJ stuff.
So I have no idea if you will ever get it to work "right" and the first thing I would do is remove the lightweight springs as IMHO the slides open too fast with the stock set up.
For the folks that claim they have the only set up that works and everyone should copy it... well ok if you say so
For me I believe every bike is different and only say the stuff I listed is a good base-line and you will need to tune for optimum performance.
The coolant line topic has been beaten to death, all I will say is I have run both ways and have them hooked up now as , to me, the bike runs better with them installed.
I didn't run these parts for a reason, in fact I came up with that carb set up after removing all the DJ stuff.
So I have no idea if you will ever get it to work "right" and the first thing I would do is remove the lightweight springs as IMHO the slides open too fast with the stock set up.
For the folks that claim they have the only set up that works and everyone should copy it... well ok if you say so
For me I believe every bike is different and only say the stuff I listed is a good base-line and you will need to tune for optimum performance.
The coolant line topic has been beaten to death, all I will say is I have run both ways and have them hooked up now as , to me, the bike runs better with them installed.
08-27-2014 | 04:08 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
The issues you are having is due to running the Dyno jet springs, though the needles could be an issue also.
I didn't run these parts for a reason, in fact I came up with that carb set up after removing all the DJ stuff.
So I have no idea if you will ever get it to work "right" and the first thing I would do is remove the lightweight springs as IMHO the slides open too fast with the stock set up.
For the folks that claim they have the only set up that works and everyone should copy it... well ok if you say so
For me I believe every bike is different and only say the stuff I listed is a good base-line and you will need to tune for optimum performance.
The coolant line topic has been beaten to death, all I will say is I have run both ways and have them hooked up now as , to me, the bike runs better with them installed.
I didn't run these parts for a reason, in fact I came up with that carb set up after removing all the DJ stuff.
So I have no idea if you will ever get it to work "right" and the first thing I would do is remove the lightweight springs as IMHO the slides open too fast with the stock set up.
For the folks that claim they have the only set up that works and everyone should copy it... well ok if you say so
For me I believe every bike is different and only say the stuff I listed is a good base-line and you will need to tune for optimum performance.
The coolant line topic has been beaten to death, all I will say is I have run both ways and have them hooked up now as , to me, the bike runs better with them installed.
I will tackle the needles and springs this weekend and note the difference. The only thing I dont like about this Carb tuning is removing and installing the carbs, every time.
I know that is part of the whole thing unless I have a dyno and a remote fuel tank.
I am almost wondering if i should tune this perfectly right now OR if I plan on ever finish my 1 into 1 exhaust and tune it for that.
For now though, everywhere 3K and above is good but below that is where the issues are. Thanks for your pointers!
08-27-2014 | 04:29 PM
#14
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
Ducati V-One – Twin to Supercharged Single Conversion
08-27-2014 | 06:37 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
1 into 1 exhaust? You gonna make a supercharger out of the other cylinder?
Ducati V-One – Twin to Supercharged Single Conversion
Ducati V-One – Twin to Supercharged Single Conversion
Now, that would be boring. Making power the Un-natural way? LAME! (haha) Each cylinder will have its own independent exhaust is what I mean by that. I have been working on this project on and off for some time now. I just really suck at fab work and welding but I have the measurements down and what looks to be good flow, length, and back pressure. Just now need to figure out how to weld it all up and make some mounts for it, and fab up a subframe and figure out what pipes I am going to use.
09-02-2014 | 08:16 PM
#16
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
So took Hawks advise and went back to stock springs and needles with 1 shim under the rear needle and no shim under the front. I had to fiddle with the AFM screws a bit but now she is smooth at 4k and PULLS! I feel like I gained 20HP. I know that's an exaggeration but I'm excited that its dialed in.
Took it on a 320 mile shakedown on the Cascade Highway and on the cruise out to the riding grounds I was at 70MPH @ 4kRPM and went 90.2 miles on 2.05 Gallons of fuel, I was amazed. So there is that....
Took it on a 320 mile shakedown on the Cascade Highway and on the cruise out to the riding grounds I was at 70MPH @ 4kRPM and went 90.2 miles on 2.05 Gallons of fuel, I was amazed. So there is that....
09-03-2014 | 03:01 PM
#18
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
09-03-2014 | 03:41 PM
#19
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,082
From: Menifee, CA
For you guys that haven't adjusted your TPS you're behind the 8 ball, must be done first. This is the throttle position sensor and everything else comes after this adjustment!
ps a good multimeter is less than $20 at Sears!
ps a good multimeter is less than $20 at Sears!
09-03-2014 | 08:58 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
Ah ha... That make plenty of sense, I could see that effecting the outcome. Thanks for making that clear.
Thanks for the tip, I will have to look on line I guess. We do not have a Sears for 70 miles near here.
09-04-2014 | 08:21 AM
#22
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 510
From: Edwards AFB, CA
I did buy one 3-4 years ago that was about 10 or 15 bucks. When I went to test a 12v battery the damn think shorted out and the leads melted in my hands. Shortly there after I bought a FLUKE and Never had a problem. I just need to buy a new one since all my tools were stolen.
Last edited by Squid; 09-04-2014 at 08:26 AM.
09-12-2014 | 10:13 PM
#23
Member
Squid
Squid
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 53
From: Sherman Island, Ca.
TPS Oddity
Here's a TPS question. One I am almost afraid to have the answer to....I have an exhaust after-burn and some rear cylinder carb back-fire as of late.
So the Q is... I did the TPS operation inspection per the Honda factory service manual, #1 reconnecting the 3P connector @ 3500 rpm and I get no engine speed increase. #2 The resistance between the yellow/black and green black is 4.96 K ohms (mid. spec). #3 resistance between red/yellow and green/black is 1.088 K ohms full-open throttle and 4.99 K ohms full-closed throttle (good). #4 The voltage input at the yellow/black and green/black when the ICM is reconnected is 4.94 volts, again mid. spec. Test #1 fails, yet #2 #3 and #4 seem to check well... Something elsewhere in the ICM???
Regardless the amount of rpm increase when reconnecting the TPS, which the manual does not refer ....I get zip, zilch, nada!????
I should mention the TPS is set @ 4.99 k ohms and the test was done air-box and velocity stacks off...
Does anyone have thoughts, ideas, comments or experiences regarding this dilemma? I would love to hear!
So the Q is... I did the TPS operation inspection per the Honda factory service manual, #1 reconnecting the 3P connector @ 3500 rpm and I get no engine speed increase. #2 The resistance between the yellow/black and green black is 4.96 K ohms (mid. spec). #3 resistance between red/yellow and green/black is 1.088 K ohms full-open throttle and 4.99 K ohms full-closed throttle (good). #4 The voltage input at the yellow/black and green/black when the ICM is reconnected is 4.94 volts, again mid. spec. Test #1 fails, yet #2 #3 and #4 seem to check well... Something elsewhere in the ICM???
Regardless the amount of rpm increase when reconnecting the TPS, which the manual does not refer ....I get zip, zilch, nada!????
I should mention the TPS is set @ 4.99 k ohms and the test was done air-box and velocity stacks off...
Does anyone have thoughts, ideas, comments or experiences regarding this dilemma? I would love to hear!
Last edited by dpg23; 09-13-2014 at 10:42 AM. Reason: spell ck
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