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Carb jet/engine damage question

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Old 03-21-2010 | 03:25 PM
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Carb jet/engine damage question

Hello. I have a 2000 Hawk with a devil high mount exhaust. The previous owner didn't jet the carbs. I know I need to get it done. Problem is I can't afford it until May. Will this cause engine damage? Dealer says no, but wanted to see what some of you had to say. Thanks
Old 03-21-2010 | 03:32 PM
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Form what I have read on this forum, I would say no it wont damage anything. I have Erion Racing slip ons and I am still running stock jetting on my bike. It runs just a lil rich even after carb synching and adjusting. I was told by a fellow rider that it wont do any damage. Hope that helps you out.
Old 03-21-2010 | 03:38 PM
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Thanks for answering. Makes me feel better. I would hate to let it sit until May. I was knida worried about burning up a piston or the valves. Any others with input, I'd love to hear it. Thanks
Old 03-21-2010 | 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by crackerjackman
I have Erion Racing slip ons and I am still running stock jetting on my bike. It runs just a lil rich even after carb synching and adjusting.
Are you sure?? With the stock set up you should be fine at around 7k and above but a little lean everywhere else.
Old 03-21-2010 | 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by steve29
Hello. I have a 2000 Hawk with a devil high mount exhaust. The previous owner didn't jet the carbs. I know I need to get it done. Problem is I can't afford it until May. Will this cause engine damage? Dealer says no, but wanted to see what some of you had to say. Thanks
Well you won't do any damage but you can get everything dialed in for under $15. All you need to do is replace the pilot jets with #48s and shim then needles up .040 and the bike will run as good if not better than any jet kit you can buy, well except for the HRC kit (if you can find on and are will to pay $230 or more for a jet kit)

Also make sure to set the TPS while you have the carbs out.
Old 03-21-2010 | 05:17 PM
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Thanks for the advice. Is this just a drop in and you're finished job, or is there tuning required? Also what is the TPS? Throttle position sensor?
Old 03-21-2010 | 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by steve29
Thanks for the advice. Is this just a drop in and you're finished job, or is there tuning required? Also what is the TPS? Throttle position sensor?
Well it will get you real close. You might have to play with the shims a bit as every bike is different and you need to set the pilot screws but that is true with any carb adjustment.

Yes the TPS is the throttle position sensor. They are all set high from the factory. Spec is 490 ohms =\- 10 ohms and usually they are set in the 800-900 ohm range. In order to get a good idle and low speed driveability you need to set it to spec by removing the tamper proof screws and replace them with allen heads.
Old 03-21-2010 | 05:40 PM
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Great advice. I'll give it a shot. I'll post any questions should issues arise.
Old 03-22-2010 | 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk
Are you sure?? With the stock set up you should be fine at around 7k and above but a little lean everywhere else.

Yes I am pretty sure If I remember right. Had cornandp up here in seattle at the end of december and he showed me how to synch the carbs and remove them. When we had the carbs off we checked to see if the bike had a jet kit and it didnt. He told me that a jet kit would help but if the bike runs fine on the stock settings then to just ride it how it is.
Old 03-22-2010 | 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 8541Hawk
Well you won't do any damage but you can get everything dialed in for under $15. All you need to do is replace the pilot jets with #48s and shim then needles up .040 and the bike will run as good if not better than any jet kit you can buy, well except for the HRC kit (if you can find on and are will to pay $230 or more for a jet kit)

Also make sure to set the TPS while you have the carbs out.
8541 Hawk. Couple of questions for you. First, how am I able to tell how far I am actually shimming the needles? Do you purchase the shims in a .040 size, or do you make adjustments to achieve that number? Second, do I shim all needles? Third, how exactly do I do the fine tuning that is required? Fourth, regarding the TPS, I assume you use an ohmmeter to set it, but how/where do I get the reading? Last, as someone who has worked on motors but never carbs, let alone on a motorcycle, is this even something I can handle? I know I just asked a mouthful. I'm hoping with the help of forum members and advice from the dealer if I get stuck I can do this. Let me know. Thanks
Old 03-22-2010 | 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by steve29
8541 Hawk. Couple of questions for you. First, how am I able to tell how far I am actually shimming the needles? Do you purchase the shims in a .040 size, or do you make adjustments to achieve that number?
You use #4 washers and normally that are .020 each ( i use a set of calipers to measure them) so normally you would run 2 washers.

Originally Posted by steve29
Second, do I shim all needles? Third, how exactly do I do the fine tuning that is required?
Yes you shim both the front and back needles. The fine tuning is you might need to raise them (as you generally don't need to lower them) by adding another shim if you are still too lean in the mid-range

Originally Posted by steve29
Fourth, regarding the TPS, I assume you use an ohmmeter to set it, but how/where do I get the reading?
Take the reading off of the top 2 pins on the TPS or you can trace the wiring diagram and pull it reading off of the plug going into the ECU.

Originally Posted by steve29
Last, as someone who has worked on motors but never carbs, let alone on a motorcycle, is this even something I can handle? I know I just asked a mouthful. I'm hoping with the help of forum members and advice from the dealer if I get stuck I can do this. Let me know. Thanks
It's no big deal to do. The only tricky part is putting the slide spring back in. You can either do a search on how to do that or i can walk you through it here when I have a little more time to write it up for you.

Cheers,
Mike
Old 03-22-2010 | 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by crackerjackman
Yes I am pretty sure If I remember right. Had cornandp up here in seattle at the end of december and he showed me how to synch the carbs and remove them. When we had the carbs off we checked to see if the bike had a jet kit and it didnt. He told me that a jet kit would help but if the bike runs fine on the stock settings then to just ride it how it is.
Ok, just thought I would ask as the normal condition is a bit lean everywhere but the top end. Then again every bike is different.
Old 03-22-2010 | 02:02 PM
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I agree with everyone 8541Hawk states. .040 shim and #48 pilot made my Hawk pulled like a raped ape.
Old 03-22-2010 | 02:12 PM
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8541 Hawk. Stupid question. To determine if I am still running too lean after the shimming, do I need to put the bike on the dyno? Or is this something I can tell simply by riding it?
Old 03-22-2010 | 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by steve29
8541 Hawk. Stupid question. To determine if I am still running too lean after the shimming, do I need to put the bike on the dyno? Or is this something I can tell simply by riding it?
Well the only way to know for sure is to do a dyno pull. You can get close with the seat of the pants method and for a lot of people that is good enough.
Old 03-23-2010 | 12:08 AM
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Thanks. Gonna try to get started tomorrow. Seems as if I'm gonna need a special tool to adjust the pilot screws from what I read in other threads. Is this the case? I also downloaded the service manual. Hopefully this keeps me from screwing it up. I'll post any questions. I'm sure there will be more. Haha. I really appreciate your help.
Old 03-23-2010 | 12:14 AM
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Oh yeah I forgot to ask. Do I need to sync the carbs after I complete the shimming and changing the pilots? I would assume as much, but not sure. The less I have to do the lower the chances of screwing something up.
Old 03-23-2010 | 10:35 AM
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There is a special "D" shaped tool you can use or the common "fix" is to take a dremel and make a screwdriver slot in the end of the pilot so you can adjust them. Yes the carbs need to be sync'd when you are done and should be checked from time to time as normal maintenance.

After re-reading this the only a couple of small things that were left out.
1) to get the needles out, take one of the screws that held the slide in place and thread it into the needle holder and use it to pull it out.

2) when you pull the needles, there will be 1 washer under each needle. remove it from the front carb but leave it in the rear to shim the rear needle a little more than the front. (just like the staggered jetting)

3) To re install the slides, put the slide in the carb (making sue the needle is in the needle jet) and find something (I have big hands so i just hole it with my finger) to put in the throat of the carb to hold the slide about half way up (so the diaphragm is resting in the full down position) then to install the spring, take a long screw drive and use it to hold the spring while you compress it, hold it inside the cap and kind of slide you finger out of the way when you pop the cap back on. It's not that hard, just takes a little practice.... When the cap is back on, lift the slide and let it close. You should hear air blow out when you push up and hear air being sucked in when you release it. If you don't hear anything and the slide just slams closed the diaphragm is not properly installed (you can try it before you take them apart to see what it should sound and feel like)

4) on the #48 pilots, set the front on at 1.5 turns out and the rear at 1.75 turns as a starting point.

Let me know if you have any problems and you can shoot me a PM and i'll send you my number in case you run into problems and would rather call than try to ask questions here.

Cheers,
Mike
Old 03-23-2010 | 10:57 AM
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Thanks, Hawk. Got my parts and will be tearing into her within the hour. I'll let you know.
Old 03-24-2010 | 10:36 AM
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Thanks for all your help Hawk. I worked long into the night, but I got her done. No more hiccups in first gear under quarter throttle. You were right about that spring. It was a bitch. Closest I could get the TPS was about 600 ohms. It feels ok, but I'm probably gonna get a pull on the dyno just to check my fuel mixture. And, I'm also curious about my rwhp. Again, thanks a lot.

Steve
Old 03-24-2010 | 10:53 AM
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No worries and the way to get the TPS lower is to bend the tap on the carb a bit to get it to where you want. Glad it all worked out for you.

Cheers,
Mike
Old 03-24-2010 | 11:26 AM
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Geeze, I love this site. So often reading these threads I get the same feeling I get while watching a teenager holding a door open for a post menopausal adult. But without the purse snatching.
Old 03-24-2010 | 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by PUSHrod
Geeze, I love this site. So often reading these threads I get the same feeling I get while watching a teenager holding a door open for a post menopausal adult. But without the purse snatching.
Haha. That's a good analogy.
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