Camshaft timing marks reference
03-22-2013 | 10:52 PM
#1
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THE LANE CARVER
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
Camshaft timing marks reference
Where can I find a thorough and proper camshaft timing mark material to make sure I reassembled properly? I've looked and scoured the Internet but anything I found was vague at best.
03-22-2013 | 11:50 PM
#3
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
Ya I have that but I'm not sure about it. I only saw reference to front cylinder. My issue is the rear cylinder.
Also how do I know if when I reinstalled the CCT that its not too tight or tight enough on the chain?
Now when I try to turn the crank (counter clockwise) it's extremely more difficult than it was before I disassembled the unit.
Thx for quick response..
Also how do I know if when I reinstalled the CCT that its not too tight or tight enough on the chain?
Now when I try to turn the crank (counter clockwise) it's extremely more difficult than it was before I disassembled the unit.
Thx for quick response..
Last edited by whatthefnck; 03-23-2013 at 12:07 AM.
03-24-2013 | 03:57 AM
#4
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Well... You take the top apart, and look at the cam lobes... Then you know it's all good... Other than that, there are more complex and advanced methods...
But since you have stated that you have read the manual, and still are unsure about the methods and markings described there, I can pretty much sum it all up for you... You either do not have the competence or the background knowledge to do any other method to verify your work...
Not trying to be mean... Just honest... If you want your engine to work, open it up, and verify... That way you can also verify the chain tension, and set the CCT's to baseline...
It should most definetly not be at all harder to turn than before, unless the CCT's you removed was already broken...
But since you have stated that you have read the manual, and still are unsure about the methods and markings described there, I can pretty much sum it all up for you... You either do not have the competence or the background knowledge to do any other method to verify your work...
Not trying to be mean... Just honest... If you want your engine to work, open it up, and verify... That way you can also verify the chain tension, and set the CCT's to baseline...
It should most definetly not be at all harder to turn than before, unless the CCT's you removed was already broken...
03-24-2013 | 07:11 AM
#5
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From: Ottawa Ontario
Note: even following all these steps my eye was not perfect and I was one tooth out,.. good luck!
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...replace-28997/
03-24-2013 | 11:14 PM
#6
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
Exactly. Thx guys. I have no background for accurate competence on the work. That's why I need specifics. Mechanilcaly inclined I am, and I can reproduce what I've seen, but I need excellent reference material since I've never done or seen it done before. And anyone should be able to follow instructions. But I am NOT a mechanic. However I replaced my water pump on my truck with no problem bc I saw a video on YouTube. The reference material is my ticket to completion.
03-25-2013 | 12:48 AM
#7
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The best reference material you will ever get is this... Take the valve covers off... Look at the cam lobes... They should be pointing uniformly in and uniformly out... Ie in sync... If they aren't, the chain has moved... No need to measure anything at all...
03-25-2013 | 01:34 PM
#8
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
Thx Tweety. I hear you. I did pretty good with that although the cam timings weren't as specific as I was thinking they should be but another user said it didn't need to be. Yet another user made reference to being 1 tooth off as I suspect mine was even though I was meticulous. Would you be open to exchanging ph nums and I can send you pics of exact positioning and maybe you can let m know if/how I need to make an adjustment?
03-25-2013 | 01:46 PM
#9
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Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
Visual reference is good to confirm all is "right" but a terrible way to know what is wrong.
If it's wrong, then you (or someone) needs to properly time the cams using those pesky timing marks.
If you get in a bind and want to make a trip.. Gime a yell... Im down the road a ways in CENTEX, But I can find some time in the garage for a fellow SH rider and help you get it straight.
If it's wrong, then you (or someone) needs to properly time the cams using those pesky timing marks.
If you get in a bind and want to make a trip.. Gime a yell... Im down the road a ways in CENTEX, But I can find some time in the garage for a fellow SH rider and help you get it straight.
03-25-2013 | 02:10 PM
#10
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Visual reference is good to confirm all is "right" but a terrible way to know what is wrong.
If it's wrong, then you (or someone) needs to properly time the cams using those pesky timing marks.
If you get in a bind and want to make a trip.. Gime a yell... Im down the road a ways in CENTEX, But I can find some time in the garage for a fellow SH rider and help you get it straight.
If it's wrong, then you (or someone) needs to properly time the cams using those pesky timing marks.
If you get in a bind and want to make a trip.. Gime a yell... Im down the road a ways in CENTEX, But I can find some time in the garage for a fellow SH rider and help you get it straight.
03-25-2013 | 02:11 PM
#11
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Thx Tweety. I hear you. I did pretty good with that although the cam timings weren't as specific as I was thinking they should be but another user said it didn't need to be. Yet another user made reference to being 1 tooth off as I suspect mine was even though I was meticulous. Would you be open to exchanging ph nums and I can send you pics of exact positioning and maybe you can let m know if/how I need to make an adjustment?
03-25-2013 | 02:47 PM
#12
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From: Kempner, TX
The point is, still.....
Looking at cam lobes is a great way to see if they look to be in the right spot in relation to what the timing marks indicate the should be. A good simple easy to understand visual check
But is otherwise useless in knowing what is wrong, what is out of time... what part is defective or worn out.
For that, you need to use the timing and cam marks, or better a dial indicator and degree wheel.
Tweety, I know YOU know that, the post was for others reading the thread.
Should you look at the cam lobes while using the timing marks to set cam timing.. Well of course... Don't think I or anyone else suggested otherwise.. doing it with a blindfold on may be a fun exercise, but kind of silly.
03-25-2013 | 03:14 PM
#13
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
LOL, and I never said you said that .....
The point is, still.....
Looking at cam lobes is a great way to see if they look to be in the right spot in relation to what the timing marks indicate the should be. A good simple easy to understand visual check
But is otherwise useless in knowing what is wrong, what is out of time... what part is defective or worn out.
For that, you need to use the timing and cam marks, or better a dial indicator and degree wheel.
Tweety, I know YOU know that, the post was for others reading the thread.
Should you look at the cam lobes while using the timing marks to set cam timing.. Well of course... Don't think I or anyone else suggested otherwise.. doing it with a blindfold on may be a fun exercise, but kind of silly.
The point is, still.....
Looking at cam lobes is a great way to see if they look to be in the right spot in relation to what the timing marks indicate the should be. A good simple easy to understand visual check
But is otherwise useless in knowing what is wrong, what is out of time... what part is defective or worn out.
For that, you need to use the timing and cam marks, or better a dial indicator and degree wheel.
Tweety, I know YOU know that, the post was for others reading the thread.
Should you look at the cam lobes while using the timing marks to set cam timing.. Well of course... Don't think I or anyone else suggested otherwise.. doing it with a blindfold on may be a fun exercise, but kind of silly.
BTW, you can do a whole lot other cool stuff with the cam covers off... Like check the chain slack...
03-25-2013 | 05:31 PM
#14
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 133
From: California
Take off the rear cam cover. RT only hits twice only one position is correct.
ASSUMING: you are turning the engine counter clockwise from the crank cover you cannot see the cam lobes. So each RT you want to stop and look on the other side.
**Remove both spark plugs and be on a rear stand, this will allow you to turn the engine counterclockwise as many times as you need / want.
When you hit RT look at the other side of the CAMS, they are "tear droped" shaped. You want the more pointy ends to both be facing each other.
The other RT mark has both cam lobes facing in weird directions so only one is OBVIOUSLY correct.
When you figure out which RT is the correct mark, ensure your lines match up perfectly. Match up the line on the hole (viewing hole) with the line which is is IMMEDIATELY before RT, if you miss it, spin it around counter clockwise again! When you find what you feel is REAR TDC. ZIP TIE THE CHAIN TO THE TWO SPROCKETS.
Unscrew the two mounting bolts. Likely the tensioner still wont move. LIGHTLY tap it until you see the seal break. LIGHTLY wiggle the tensioner and SLOWLY pull it out. **You shouldnt skip a tooth since it's ziptied.
Install the new tensioner, locktite the two mounting bolts. Twist the TENSIONER adjusting bolt in until it's hand tight, go as hard as you can. Once you can't turn it anymore, back out 1/4 turn. NOW locktite the LOCKING NUT and while holding the end of the adjusting bolt with whatever tool you want STEADY, use another tool to tighten up that locking nut to a level you know it wont go anywhere.
Remove your zipties from the sprockets, you are done with the back.
Front TDC is 1 + 1/4 turn (450*) COUNTER CLOCKWISE from the proper RT mark you should already have been at. If you rotate past FT, get back to the proper RT mark and try again. I did not remove the front cover.
Be prepared to have to undo your locktite job from the locking nut on the tensioner bolt. You want your bike to sound perfect when its warmed up. If you hear some weirdness while its cold make sure it sounds normal when it's warm, this is normal.
If it sounds good cold but you hear something weird when its warmed, you may need to tighten the tensioner bolt in abit more and redo the locking nut.
**Mine sounded good both cold and warm, so I dunno....guess I am just Mr. LuckyPantz
ASSUMING: you are turning the engine counter clockwise from the crank cover you cannot see the cam lobes. So each RT you want to stop and look on the other side.
**Remove both spark plugs and be on a rear stand, this will allow you to turn the engine counterclockwise as many times as you need / want.
When you hit RT look at the other side of the CAMS, they are "tear droped" shaped. You want the more pointy ends to both be facing each other.
The other RT mark has both cam lobes facing in weird directions so only one is OBVIOUSLY correct.
When you figure out which RT is the correct mark, ensure your lines match up perfectly. Match up the line on the hole (viewing hole) with the line which is is IMMEDIATELY before RT, if you miss it, spin it around counter clockwise again! When you find what you feel is REAR TDC. ZIP TIE THE CHAIN TO THE TWO SPROCKETS.
Unscrew the two mounting bolts. Likely the tensioner still wont move. LIGHTLY tap it until you see the seal break. LIGHTLY wiggle the tensioner and SLOWLY pull it out. **You shouldnt skip a tooth since it's ziptied.
Install the new tensioner, locktite the two mounting bolts. Twist the TENSIONER adjusting bolt in until it's hand tight, go as hard as you can. Once you can't turn it anymore, back out 1/4 turn. NOW locktite the LOCKING NUT and while holding the end of the adjusting bolt with whatever tool you want STEADY, use another tool to tighten up that locking nut to a level you know it wont go anywhere.
Remove your zipties from the sprockets, you are done with the back.
Front TDC is 1 + 1/4 turn (450*) COUNTER CLOCKWISE from the proper RT mark you should already have been at. If you rotate past FT, get back to the proper RT mark and try again. I did not remove the front cover.
Be prepared to have to undo your locktite job from the locking nut on the tensioner bolt. You want your bike to sound perfect when its warmed up. If you hear some weirdness while its cold make sure it sounds normal when it's warm, this is normal.
If it sounds good cold but you hear something weird when its warmed, you may need to tighten the tensioner bolt in abit more and redo the locking nut.
**Mine sounded good both cold and warm, so I dunno....guess I am just Mr. LuckyPantz
Last edited by WhOrD; 03-25-2013 at 05:41 PM.
03-25-2013 | 08:32 PM
#15
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
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Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
@WhOrD wow wish I hadyour notes before I started, But I'm def gonna keep em.
@E.Marquez haha I started to lookup CENTEX, Tx -but then I realized you meant Central Tx. haaaa
@Tweety ya you're far, @anyone- but text messaging or email with pics would work just fine.
Ok I'll start with this real quick- with both cams out of place, how do I identify which RT mark is the one I should use?
So here’s the deal, I set the cam sprockets so that <-RE & RI-> were pointing outwards. On the rear cylinder RE was pointing to rear, and RI was pointing forward. BUT the instructions said 'flush' with housing. However I couldn't get both EXACTLY flush with what I was thinking was the edge of housing should be. I used the picture in service manual as reference. It seemed no matter how I adjusted it one of the marks would be higher or lower than what it appeared in the manual. Hence my reason for needing and experienced SH guy for a little help. And basically to explain how to properly work with and adjust for slack, and then of course reinstall CCT. My friends roommate is a bike mechanic and told me it should be pretty simple and call him if I needed help [but he left mehangin]. I didn't know I needed to remove CCT before unscrewing the camshaft journals, so the tension on chain pulled the cam out of place and EF'dme up before I could get proper notes of exact cam positioning and ziptie before disassembly. For all I know one of the cams skipped and was causing theissue I had. Basically he was no help as he offered. Now Im worse off than before. I wish I knew then what I know now. Live n Learn..
So the issue at hand is the rear cylinder only and reassembling it properly. the front is fine. SORRY FOR THE LONG ARTICLE FELLAS, but you all are the only help I have, and I am so anxious to enjoy riding the great weather again.
@E.Marquez haha I started to lookup CENTEX, Tx -but then I realized you meant Central Tx. haaaa
@Tweety ya you're far, @anyone- but text messaging or email with pics would work just fine.
Ok I'll start with this real quick- with both cams out of place, how do I identify which RT mark is the one I should use?
So here’s the deal, I set the cam sprockets so that <-RE & RI-> were pointing outwards. On the rear cylinder RE was pointing to rear, and RI was pointing forward. BUT the instructions said 'flush' with housing. However I couldn't get both EXACTLY flush with what I was thinking was the edge of housing should be. I used the picture in service manual as reference. It seemed no matter how I adjusted it one of the marks would be higher or lower than what it appeared in the manual. Hence my reason for needing and experienced SH guy for a little help. And basically to explain how to properly work with and adjust for slack, and then of course reinstall CCT. My friends roommate is a bike mechanic and told me it should be pretty simple and call him if I needed help [but he left mehangin]. I didn't know I needed to remove CCT before unscrewing the camshaft journals, so the tension on chain pulled the cam out of place and EF'dme up before I could get proper notes of exact cam positioning and ziptie before disassembly. For all I know one of the cams skipped and was causing theissue I had. Basically he was no help as he offered. Now Im worse off than before. I wish I knew then what I know now. Live n Learn..
So the issue at hand is the rear cylinder only and reassembling it properly. the front is fine. SORRY FOR THE LONG ARTICLE FELLAS, but you all are the only help I have, and I am so anxious to enjoy riding the great weather again.
Last edited by whatthefnck; 03-25-2013 at 08:37 PM.
03-25-2013 | 08:41 PM
#16
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
that would be great, I can accomplish a lot with a phone call and sending you a few pics [via text or email] to tell me Correct or Incorrect
03-25-2013 | 08:43 PM
#17
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
@ANYONE I'm confident with anyone that is willing to help and handle a few phone calls and texts or emails with pic, that I'll be able to get this badass bike back up and running properly. my num is 713.900.MIKE [6453]
I love this bike and DO NOT want to EF it up or get rid of it. Its a keeper....
I love this bike and DO NOT want to EF it up or get rid of it. Its a keeper....
Last edited by whatthefnck; 03-25-2013 at 08:45 PM.
03-26-2013 | 10:24 PM
#20
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
I put it all back together with help from 7moore7 giving me a call for helpful instruction and sending pics for reference. But not sure if I put hoses back in proper places with fuel tank although I couldn't really see any other way. So now the throttle response is slow and weak. Sometimes stalls out if I twist too fast. Suggestions?
But other than that it sounds good
But other than that it sounds good
Last edited by whatthefnck; 03-26-2013 at 11:43 PM.
03-27-2013 | 12:30 AM
#21
Thread Starter
THE LANE CARVER
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 271
From: Houston TX
I put it all back together with help from 7moore7 giving me a call for helpful instruction and sending pics for reference. But not sure if I put hoses back in proper places with fuel tank although I couldn't really see any other way. So now the throttle response is slow and weak. Sometimes stalls out if I twist too fast. Suggestions?
But other than that it sounds good
But other than that it sounds good
03-27-2013 | 06:54 AM
#22
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Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
04-02-2017 | 05:45 PM
#25
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Squid
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04-02-2017 | 06:58 PM
#27
VTR virgin
Superstock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 446
From: Auckland, New Zealand
I had the same issue, I carefully cable tied the sprockets to the chain when I had the cams out and kept chain tension so I know I did not change the timing, and I still saw a small misalignment between the sprocket marks and the flywheel mark. I put it down to chain stretch. My bike runs really well. The picture below shows the rear sprockets with the flywheel mark set dead-on.
04-09-2017 | 02:48 PM
#28
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Posts: 153
From: Vancouver, WA
Yeah, there has always been a "half a tooth" off thing taking place for me as well - on my original engine, and the replacement I purchased the other year. For me, prior to applying cam chain tension, everything lines up.
Last edited by Spaz'; 09-03-2019 at 06:41 PM.
04-09-2017 | 03:03 PM
#29
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Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
To give a more "complete" answer, it seems they are all like that to some extent. So you will not get it to line up like the manual states.
The way I set them cam timing is:
Set the flywheel mark.
Set the cam away from the cct to as close as you can get it. Use a straight edge.
Slightly rotate the flywheel so the cam lines up with the head
Set the cam closest to the cct and line up the timing marks per the manual.
then repeat for the other head.
Never had any issues doing it this way.
The way I set them cam timing is:
Set the flywheel mark.
Set the cam away from the cct to as close as you can get it. Use a straight edge.
Slightly rotate the flywheel so the cam lines up with the head
Set the cam closest to the cct and line up the timing marks per the manual.
then repeat for the other head.
Never had any issues doing it this way.
04-14-2017 | 11:15 AM
#30
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
To give a more "complete" answer, it seems they are all like that to some extent. So you will not get it to line up like the manual states.
The way I set them cam timing is:
Set the flywheel mark.
Set the cam away from the cct to as close as you can get it. Use a straight edge.
Slightly rotate the flywheel so the cam lines up with the head
Set the cam closest to the cct and line up the timing marks per the manual.
then repeat for the other head.
Never had any issues doing it this way.
The way I set them cam timing is:
Set the flywheel mark.
Set the cam away from the cct to as close as you can get it. Use a straight edge.
Slightly rotate the flywheel so the cam lines up with the head
Set the cam closest to the cct and line up the timing marks per the manual.
then repeat for the other head.
Never had any issues doing it this way.
With brand new chains and chain guides I found the marks do align as per the book spec.
You want it closer, than that partial tooth off, get your self a degree wheel, dial indicator and cams with adjustable sprockets, and dial in those cams to your hearts content.
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