To buy or not to buy?
11-29-2011, 01:51 PM
#1
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 12
To buy or not to buy?
Good afternoon ALL,
I'm considering buying a 2005 very well kept VTR w/ approx 96XX miles. There are some upgrades: Exhaust, seat, rotors, turn signals, new chain/sprockets. Love the looks of this particular bike + performance numbers seem manageable.
Allow me to introduce myself. Been riding since 2001 and have gone thru several bikes, the last being a 2007 Honda 919 and prior to that a 2006 VFR. Most of my riding will be a 95 mile round trip to work and two-up weekend jaunts. I have never ridden any of my bikes hard and maintenance is performed when scheduled.
Came across this bike while surfing to see what's out there to replace the 919. From what I've been reading on this forum, the CCTs is an issue that has to be dealt w/ at some point. My question then is this,
"Is the issue w/ the CCTs a potential deal breaker"? Dealer says that it's a bit early to worry about that now (somewhere around 50K he says). So I'm not sure.
Please advise and thank you in advance.
I'm considering buying a 2005 very well kept VTR w/ approx 96XX miles. There are some upgrades: Exhaust, seat, rotors, turn signals, new chain/sprockets. Love the looks of this particular bike + performance numbers seem manageable.
Allow me to introduce myself. Been riding since 2001 and have gone thru several bikes, the last being a 2007 Honda 919 and prior to that a 2006 VFR. Most of my riding will be a 95 mile round trip to work and two-up weekend jaunts. I have never ridden any of my bikes hard and maintenance is performed when scheduled.
Came across this bike while surfing to see what's out there to replace the 919. From what I've been reading on this forum, the CCTs is an issue that has to be dealt w/ at some point. My question then is this,
"Is the issue w/ the CCTs a potential deal breaker"? Dealer says that it's a bit early to worry about that now (somewhere around 50K he says). So I'm not sure.
Please advise and thank you in advance.
11-29-2011, 02:15 PM
#2
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SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Essex, UK
Posts: 1,707
Greetings,
Make sure there's a gas station on your route as you'll have to fill up everyday.
Bollocks, 'scuse my French. Check recent posts as there has been cases of OEM failure without warning with less miles than that. Though it is an easy and relatively cheap fix with manual CCTs to make them impregnable to implosion.
With regard to commuting, one of the nicer mods is to fit louder cans (and playing the hawk like a musical instrument) but with commuting that might be in the long term a bit of a drone. (make sure you you've got good quality earplugs i.e mouldable silicone)
As a plausible alternative have you considered a Blackbird for the commute and touring ?
95 mile round trip to work
Dealer says that it's a bit early to worry about that now (somewhere around 50K he says)
With regard to commuting, one of the nicer mods is to fit louder cans (and playing the hawk like a musical instrument) but with commuting that might be in the long term a bit of a drone. (make sure you you've got good quality earplugs i.e mouldable silicone)
As a plausible alternative have you considered a Blackbird for the commute and touring ?
Last edited by Wicky; 11-29-2011 at 02:25 PM.
11-29-2011, 02:31 PM
#3
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Location: Lake View Terrace, CA
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Well first the service interval is actually every second valve adjustment or 32K miles.
Second, with a bike that has sat around that much, they should be changed out.
Third, with an unknown history, they should be changed.
As to which type to use, well that is up to you. Both types work fine.
Yes I have heard stories of people having the auto units "just let go" but on the flip side, I personally have close to 90K miles on my bike and all of them have been with the auto units.
There are 2 simple "rules" to make the auto units live a nice long life.
The first is don't just chop the throttle on "over-rev" or in simple terms, don't get the engine up to the 9K and above range and slam the throttle shut (which is pretty bad form for many reasons)
and the second is don't let the bike sit on the side stand and idle for long periods of time. Which means things like letting the bike sit and "warm up" while on the side stand.
So IMHO if you decide to purchase the bike, you should (as I would personally do with any new to me bike) check the valve clearances and while you are in there change the CCTs to whichever type you are most comfortable running and you should be good to go for many miles after that.
Second, with a bike that has sat around that much, they should be changed out.
Third, with an unknown history, they should be changed.
As to which type to use, well that is up to you. Both types work fine.
Yes I have heard stories of people having the auto units "just let go" but on the flip side, I personally have close to 90K miles on my bike and all of them have been with the auto units.
There are 2 simple "rules" to make the auto units live a nice long life.
The first is don't just chop the throttle on "over-rev" or in simple terms, don't get the engine up to the 9K and above range and slam the throttle shut (which is pretty bad form for many reasons)
and the second is don't let the bike sit on the side stand and idle for long periods of time. Which means things like letting the bike sit and "warm up" while on the side stand.
So IMHO if you decide to purchase the bike, you should (as I would personally do with any new to me bike) check the valve clearances and while you are in there change the CCTs to whichever type you are most comfortable running and you should be good to go for many miles after that.
11-29-2011, 02:49 PM
#4
Junior Member
Squid
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
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OK, thanx for all the info, Let's see to reply to questions in the order they were received:
Wicky: Dealer says it's about a $1500 USD fix to replace the CCTs
The exhaust is aftermarket and have a cool deep sound and yes I usually ride w/ silicone earplugs. Thanx
VTRSurfer: Didn't know the previous owner, bike is at a small dealer. The bike does not appear to have been abused. I suppose the previous owner wished to enhance the look of the bike w/ new chain and upgraded sprockets and rotors. Thanx
85412Hawk: OK your tips are noted and much appreciated. Thanx
Wicky: Dealer says it's about a $1500 USD fix to replace the CCTs
The exhaust is aftermarket and have a cool deep sound and yes I usually ride w/ silicone earplugs. Thanx
VTRSurfer: Didn't know the previous owner, bike is at a small dealer. The bike does not appear to have been abused. I suppose the previous owner wished to enhance the look of the bike w/ new chain and upgraded sprockets and rotors. Thanx
85412Hawk: OK your tips are noted and much appreciated. Thanx
11-29-2011, 03:05 PM
#5
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Ok I have to ask, is that the cost to rebuild the head after a CCT failure or what they would charge to just replace the CCTs...... 
It's a half a day job at most and even at $100 an hour I just can't see how they came up with $1500.....
Which then leads to where are you located at?
It's a half a day job at most and even at $100 an hour I just can't see how they came up with $1500.....
Which then leads to where are you located at?
11-29-2011, 03:18 PM
#6
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MotoGP
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Yep- that is not a 14 hour, $100 per hour job. It was the first bit that I ever did to my bike, and relatively first part of working on any motorcycle and it took me 5 hours at $0 an hour. And I did it the long way.
11-29-2011, 03:57 PM
#9
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SuperBike
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Wicky: Dealer says it's about a $1500 USD fix to replace the CCTs
I could fly over, top up the tan and fix 'em cheaper.
edit: Did the previous owner gear it down into a wheelie monster? Then you should possibly look at reverting back to standard gearing for a more relaxed cruise.
Dread to think what the dealer would quote for C&S and fitting...
Last edited by Wicky; 11-29-2011 at 04:03 PM.
11-30-2011, 07:36 AM
#10
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Squid
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Thanx all. I'm in Miami, Fl. The dealer $$$ was a ballpark amount so he wasn't very specific about the actual numbers. It's helpful to know what some of you have paid to have the CCTs replaced.
BTW, what should I be listening for when I get the opportunity ot check out the bike? I'm still not sure whether the bike would be a good purchase. The dealer is asking $5699. Blue Book retail is around $4550 and trade in at $3150.
BTW, what should I be listening for when I get the opportunity ot check out the bike? I'm still not sure whether the bike would be a good purchase. The dealer is asking $5699. Blue Book retail is around $4550 and trade in at $3150.
11-30-2011, 07:57 AM
#11
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MotoGP
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No. That is way over priced. VTRs are great bikes, but that doesn't mean paying more than you should to get one. They are not rare. Find another one from someone else that is not planning to use your back side for sexy fun time.
11-30-2011, 08:28 AM
#13
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Honda VTR 996 Superhawk
superhawk vtr1000
1998 Honda VTR 1000 Super Hawk with trailer
Seriously, a dealer sounds like a "safer" bet, but with the prices that you're being quoted and the age of the bike, there is no way of spinning that into a good deal
...although it does look like the dealer bike has ohlins suspension, which is a nice bonus.
superhawk vtr1000
1998 Honda VTR 1000 Super Hawk with trailer
Seriously, a dealer sounds like a "safer" bet, but with the prices that you're being quoted and the age of the bike, there is no way of spinning that into a good deal
...although it does look like the dealer bike has ohlins suspension, which is a nice bonus.
11-30-2011, 08:58 AM
#16
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That does look like a very well setup bike... extended mirrors, ohlins rear shock, adjustable levers, fork brace, high-mount exhaust, integrated brake/clutch m/c, ss brake lines...
If you're going to pay almost 6k for a 7 year old carbureted jap bike, that's the one to do it on.
Maybe try offering 4500 and give them a couple of weeks to call you back...
If you're going to pay almost 6k for a 7 year old carbureted jap bike, that's the one to do it on.
Maybe try offering 4500 and give them a couple of weeks to call you back...
11-30-2011, 09:40 AM
#17
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Superstock
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Wow! That bike has so many extra's on it? When you look at the pictures so many little things have been done to it. Was the previous owner a forum member? Looks like a nicely set up bike.
11-30-2011, 09:48 AM
#18
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Squid
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OK so the bikes "looks" very good. Don't if the PO was a member here. Yes, I was planning to offer somewhere in the area of $4200+++
But how will I know in advance if the CCTs are a problem? Or am I asking too much?
Peace
But how will I know in advance if the CCTs are a problem? Or am I asking too much?
Peace
11-30-2011, 09:56 AM
#19
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SuperBike
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'04 with 7800 miles... It sat from September of 2006 till April 2011
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ck-boom-26943/
They can go without any warning, though some give a rattle. I was doing a steady 30mph when my front CCT imploded damaging valves etc. without any prior indication there was anything going wrong (35,000 miles) - Fixed and replaced CCTs with manuals. Plenty of threads of riders stories and the alternative ways to fix. Importantly you now know the risk and can get it done ASAP before it becomes a potentially expensive and inconvenient issue.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honda-VTR-10...ht_1464wt_1313
http://www.overstockpartsgalore.com/
and a couple or three hours of your time following install instructions (mucho cheaper than $1500 but my offer to fly over still stands ;-)
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...pe-ccts-11275/
Last edited by Wicky; 11-30-2011 at 10:14 AM.
11-30-2011, 10:02 AM
#20
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Here's the lowdown: No matter what SH you buy, you will want to replace the CCT's. The only time that you wouldn't is if manual CCT's are already installed.
If you don't know the history of the auto (stock) CCT's on there, they are a liability. You can replace them with auto's and follow a couple of general guidelines to keep them from failing, or replace with manuals. There is plenty of discussion on this in the forum and whichever you choose is up to you. There are even a few simple conversions that allow you to convert your auto ones into manuals for less than 10 bucks. But for $100 in parts and an afternoon of labor, you are insuring that your bike doesn't munch itself into well over $1000 in head damage.
If you don't know the history of the auto (stock) CCT's on there, they are a liability. You can replace them with auto's and follow a couple of general guidelines to keep them from failing, or replace with manuals. There is plenty of discussion on this in the forum and whichever you choose is up to you. There are even a few simple conversions that allow you to convert your auto ones into manuals for less than 10 bucks. But for $100 in parts and an afternoon of labor, you are insuring that your bike doesn't munch itself into well over $1000 in head damage.
11-30-2011, 10:21 AM
#21
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You guys missed the 320mm front rotors......
Of the 2 the more expensive one is actually the better deal but still priced a bit high.
It is a good point to ask about what weight rider the bike is set up for. You might get lucky and have it close to your weight, if not you will need to replace the springs at minimum. Factor in around $100 for each end for the springs and then the cost to install them.
Also there are a few list member in FL that might offer to help with the CCT change as that is an outrageous price, even if it is just a verbal quote...
Of the 2 the more expensive one is actually the better deal but still priced a bit high.
It is a good point to ask about what weight rider the bike is set up for. You might get lucky and have it close to your weight, if not you will need to replace the springs at minimum. Factor in around $100 for each end for the springs and then the cost to install them.
Also there are a few list member in FL that might offer to help with the CCT change as that is an outrageous price, even if it is just a verbal quote...
11-30-2011, 11:14 AM
#22
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11-30-2011, 11:45 AM
#23
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Squid
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OK dealer know zilch about PO setup or mechanical history. They don't offer any warranties or guarantees. So it's buyer beware.
They may however fill the gas think, keep my fingers crossed.
One last question,
Do the manual CCTs require some sort of "manual" adjustment every so often?
Peace
They may however fill the gas think, keep my fingers crossed.
One last question,
Do the manual CCTs require some sort of "manual" adjustment every so often?
Peace
11-30-2011, 11:52 AM
#24
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12-01-2011, 08:56 AM
#26
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Squid
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VTRsurfer, do suspect that the issue w/ the CCTs failure(s) form previous model years was bettered in the 2005 model?
On another note, the honda dealer got me more accurate cost....$1300 and change. He says that the time to perform the CCT change out + adjust/check valve clearances is about twelve hours. All parts and labor, taxes, etc
Peace
On another note, the honda dealer got me more accurate cost....$1300 and change. He says that the time to perform the CCT change out + adjust/check valve clearances is about twelve hours. All parts and labor, taxes, etc
Peace
12-01-2011, 09:06 AM
#27
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SuperSport
Join Date: Jan 2005
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VTRsurfer, do suspect that the issue w/ the CCTs failure(s) form previous model years was bettered in the 2005 model?
On another note, the honda dealer got me more accurate cost....$1300 and change. He says that the time to perform the CCT change out + adjust/check valve clearances is about twelve hours. All parts and labor, taxes, etc
Peace
On another note, the honda dealer got me more accurate cost....$1300 and change. He says that the time to perform the CCT change out + adjust/check valve clearances is about twelve hours. All parts and labor, taxes, etc
Peace
12-01-2011, 09:25 AM
#28
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Ah, well, now the quote is making more sense, although still astronomical. Changing CCT's for a dealer should be 2-3 hours. I could probably do it in this amount of time and am by no means a professional. Checking valve clearances, maybe another two... and this is generous. Adjusting valves if they need it takes a little more time, but I think the first interval that you're even supposed to do this is like at 24k (don't quote me on that). It doesn't hurt to check if you have the valve covers off, though.
But checking the valves isn't necessary... it may help your bike run better, but it won't hurt it to run another 10k miles before you get around to doing it. So what you could do is either
a) Print out the "how to" sheet on this forum and tell the dealer or another shop that you want this done, only this, and not do any of that valve bs for now.
b) Try to contact one of the other Flordia members on here to help you out (I know we have a couple that have been very open to helping other members)
c) Do it yourself- it only takes a couple of wrenches and some patience, and you learn about your bike in the process.
d) Actually pay $1300 to work on an already overpriced bike.
But checking the valves isn't necessary... it may help your bike run better, but it won't hurt it to run another 10k miles before you get around to doing it. So what you could do is either
a) Print out the "how to" sheet on this forum and tell the dealer or another shop that you want this done, only this, and not do any of that valve bs for now.
b) Try to contact one of the other Flordia members on here to help you out (I know we have a couple that have been very open to helping other members)
c) Do it yourself- it only takes a couple of wrenches and some patience, and you learn about your bike in the process.
d) Actually pay $1300 to work on an already overpriced bike.
12-01-2011, 09:30 AM
#29
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12-01-2011, 09:35 AM
#30
Wild Man
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Agreed....$1300 for CCT's is absolutely insane!
They should charge $200 and another $100 to check the valves if you choose.
I did mine in about 2 hours with fine adjustments. With such low mileage, the valves should be fine....but...as long as you're in there add another 60-90 minutes for both cylinders to be checked.
Now that I've done it, I can do it again in one hour -as the cam covers can stay on.
They should charge $200 and another $100 to check the valves if you choose.
I did mine in about 2 hours with fine adjustments. With such low mileage, the valves should be fine....but...as long as you're in there add another 60-90 minutes for both cylinders to be checked.
Now that I've done it, I can do it again in one hour -as the cam covers can stay on.
