Buddies 98 VTR seized
01-01-2006 | 10:11 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
Buddies 98 VTR seized
It has 20k miles and it started making some noise and seized up. I haven't seen it yet and he hasn't pulled it apart so I'm not sure whats going on. One thing I would like to know is the VTR uses an interference engine. I'm thinking it'll have a broken cam chain from what he's told me.
If its an intereference engine I'm guessing atleast half the valves are bent and the cam chain wrapped around the crankshaft to seize the motor.
Is this an interference engine?
If it is, does it "usually" do any damage to the pistons or just to the valves when the cam chain breaks?
If its an intereference engine I'm guessing atleast half the valves are bent and the cam chain wrapped around the crankshaft to seize the motor.
Is this an interference engine?
If it is, does it "usually" do any damage to the pistons or just to the valves when the cam chain breaks?
01-02-2006 | 05:01 PM
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
It has 20k miles and it started making some noise and seized up. I haven't seen it yet and he hasn't pulled it apart so I'm not sure whats going on. One thing I would like to know is the VTR uses an interference engine. I'm thinking it'll have a broken cam chain from what he's told me.
If its an intereference engine I'm guessing atleast half the valves are bent and the cam chain wrapped around the crankshaft to seize the motor.
Is this an interference engine?
If it is, does it "usually" do any damage to the pistons or just to the valves when the cam chain breaks?
If its an intereference engine I'm guessing atleast half the valves are bent and the cam chain wrapped around the crankshaft to seize the motor.
Is this an interference engine?
If it is, does it "usually" do any damage to the pistons or just to the valves when the cam chain breaks?
01-02-2006 | 06:03 PM
#3
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 731
From: MICHIGAN
interference engine means if the main chain broke, then the valve would go down and hit the piston on it way up and break the piston and usually bend the valves. In the non interference engine, even if the belt/chain breaks, none if that will happen.
01-02-2006 | 10:15 PM
#5
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
bronco78, I hadn't learned that until long after starting wrenching. When you start replacing broken timing belts on jap cars you hear it alot.
We pulled the valve covers today and found a loose chain on the front cylinder caused by a broken cam chain tensioner spring.
I guess I need to pull the head and check for valve/piston damage now.
I hope the front cam chain isn't a bitch to replace.
We pulled the valve covers today and found a loose chain on the front cylinder caused by a broken cam chain tensioner spring.
I guess I need to pull the head and check for valve/piston damage now.
I hope the front cam chain isn't a bitch to replace.
01-03-2006 | 09:23 AM
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Great question,, I just assumed it was,,as every bike I've ownerd for the last 10 few years, and many of the cars, and or motors I've built,, have been of interference design.. Just never new that term before. Heck,, I was not aware,, any modern motorcycle motor made in the last dozen years or so,, was not an interference engine . I do know who to ask though,, be back with an answer soon.
01-03-2006 | 09:34 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
Before pulling the head I'm going to check the valve clearances. Excessive clearance should tell me if I have any bent valves. I might get lucky with the valves and hopefully if the chain looks good I can just re-time the cams and install a new tensioner and away we go. Although I think that may be an optimistic outcome.
01-03-2006 | 09:35 AM
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
The word is yes.. from a guy I trust... He is the guy road racers, trail riders, and race teams bring motors to. Yes the VTR motor is an Interference engine." A car term for sure... as it can or can not apply to an auto motor. Not really so in bikes. Nothing made in recipient history has enough piston/valve clearance to not have interference if the cams were to go out of time. Some it takes only a few deg, some it would have to be way out. The real question is.. how far out do the VTR cams need to be before the valves will smack the piston
01-03-2006 | 09:42 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
Well because the tensioner broke I think my cams stopped moving for atleast a few revolutions and if either the intake or exhaust valves were fully extended at the time the piston would have smacked the them.
Hopefully I got lucky and the feeler gauge yields good news.
Thanks for the help bronco78!
Hopefully I got lucky and the feeler gauge yields good news.
Thanks for the help bronco78!
01-03-2006 | 09:43 AM
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Well because the tensioner broke I think my cams stopped moving for atleast a few revolutions and if either the intake or exhaust valves were fully extended at the time the piston would have smacked the them.
Hopefully I got lucky and the feeler gauge yields good news.
Thanks for the help bronco78!
Hopefully I got lucky and the feeler gauge yields good news.
Thanks for the help bronco78!
Before pulling the head I'm going to check the valve clearances. Excessive clearance should tell me if I have any bent valves. I might get lucky with the valves and hopefully if the chain looks good I can just re-time the cams and install a new tensioner and away we go. Although I think that may be an optimistic outcome.
01-03-2006 | 11:39 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
I think your right but it the valves are within spec they have to be fine. We're talking about hundredths of a mm. Most likely they'll be damaged and I'll have to pull the head though. After looking at the manual I'm not too worried about changing the cam chain. Looks to be easier than previously speculated.
01-03-2006 | 12:02 PM
#14
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 764
From: Nananimo, B.C.
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
Its very common for the older CCT springs to break around 20-30k. Thats why some of us have gone to the manual aftermarket kind. Honda has also addressed the problem by updating them (a couple of times).
Be warned people who've never changed them.
Be warned people who've never changed them.
01-03-2006 | 12:07 PM
#15
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
Thanks for the info!
01-03-2006 | 03:06 PM
#16
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 764
From: Nananimo, B.C.
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
I'm sure you would get the lastest ones which I believe have a pink painted dot on them but am not sure.
Maybe someone else on here can speak up. I think its time for a sticky on this issue.
Maybe someone else on here can speak up. I think its time for a sticky on this issue.
01-03-2006 | 03:41 PM
#17
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
The one we pulled out had a pink painted dot. I think that just means which end is up.
01-03-2006 | 11:25 PM
#19
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 758
From: Laurel, MD
The one we pulled out had a pink painted dot. I think that just means which end is up.
01-04-2006 | 03:14 AM
#21
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 428
Welp here it is. Bent exhaust valves on the front cylinder but the piston looks good. I think we have a head lined up but if any of you have a good one for a good price let me know. We also need a cam chain (better safe than sorry, a head gasket, and a set of the updated tensioners.
I'll try to remember to take some pics to show you guys what a bad tensioner or broken cam chain does to valves.
Its pretty impressive how large the pistons are. Bigger than my fist! From now on I'm going to refer to the vtr engine as the double donkey puncher.
I'll try to remember to take some pics to show you guys what a bad tensioner or broken cam chain does to valves.
Its pretty impressive how large the pistons are. Bigger than my fist! From now on I'm going to refer to the vtr engine as the double donkey puncher.
01-04-2006 | 09:27 AM
#22
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 203
From: Belgium
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
Looks like latest CCT have orange dot...well - in Europe.
I've been told to buy latest one with partnumber that ends with -013, and that one indeed was latest Honda had and it had orange dot on it.
could be of course that in US that part have pink dot, this is why I loked at partnumber instead of color....
I've been told to buy latest one with partnumber that ends with -013, and that one indeed was latest Honda had and it had orange dot on it.
could be of course that in US that part have pink dot, this is why I loked at partnumber instead of color....
01-04-2006 | 09:46 AM
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
Looks like latest CCT have orange dot...well - in Europe.
I've been told to buy latest one with partnumber that ends with -013, and that one indeed was latest Honda had and it had orange dot on it.
could be of course that in US that part have pink dot, this is why I loked at partnumber instead of color....
I've been told to buy latest one with partnumber that ends with -013, and that one indeed was latest Honda had and it had orange dot on it.
could be of course that in US that part have pink dot, this is why I loked at partnumber instead of color....
But they both default to the 14520-MBB-013 part number when selected.
Part Number: 14520-MBB-013
Description: LIFTER, TENSIONER
Source: HONDA
Price: $53.57
01-04-2006 | 06:07 PM
#25
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 764
From: Nananimo, B.C.
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
Mine were still fine at 40,000 km's but I replaced them just in case. Too many horror stories.
Going 250kmh with the engine wound out, I couldn't stand the thought of it seizing under me.
Going 250kmh with the engine wound out, I couldn't stand the thought of it seizing under me.
03-13-2006 | 05:10 PM
#29
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 474
From: Merritt,MI.
Re: Buddies 98 VTR seized
how hard are these tensioners to replace my 99 has 20,000 miles and I am planning on getting the valve clearence checked this spring would this be a good time to replace them I can handle minor repairs but major teardown scares me to death!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
03-13-2006 | 09:13 PM
#30
Josh
Superstock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 278
From: Spokane, WA
THey are kinda fussy, but not challenging. Just have to be careful. If you do it wrong, you will have bent valves. It is a good time to do it though. I had 20,100 miles on mine when it went. We changed the tensioners out with ones from a 10k miles engine.
