Bike doesn't want to run after new valves
10-07-2013 | 09:20 AM
#31
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 250
From: Seattle
Whoa, now I need clarification. Do you mean you can't install them upside down because they won't mount up, or do you mean don't ever turn the carbs over? 'Cause mine have been "bowls up" for awhile, still attached to the cables and I've been cleaning them while they're upside down.
I took his remark about the Isuzu PUP to mean if you flip the carb over, it won't be happy when you turn it back over and install it.
I took his remark about the Isuzu PUP to mean if you flip the carb over, it won't be happy when you turn it back over and install it.
10-07-2013 | 09:31 AM
#32
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
Whoa, now I need clarification. Do you mean you can't install them upside down because they won't mount up, or do you mean don't ever turn the carbs over? 'Cause mine have been "bowls up" for awhile, still attached to the cables and I've been cleaning them while they're upside down.
I took his remark about the Isuzu PUP to mean if you flip the carb over, it won't be happy when you turn it back over and install it.
I took his remark about the Isuzu PUP to mean if you flip the carb over, it won't be happy when you turn it back over and install it.
And yes Carl I meant that I was going to try the cams 180* rotated from where they are now in case I got the timing 180* off. I am not quite stupid enough to try the exhaust cam on the intake side and visa versa
Edit: and yes the carb slides are moving as they should.
The bike is just stalling when you crack the throttle. Its like it starts sucking but all it gets is air and not any fuel, if it doesn't completely die it will start to rev after a second but there is a long pause where the bike is stalling rather than running. and the revs will drop to 500 from the 1100 idle I have it set at
Last edited by insulinboy; 10-07-2013 at 09:34 AM.
10-07-2013 | 11:51 AM
#33
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 397
From: UK
Whoa, now I need clarification
I thought we where talking about literally flipping them upside down and mounting them to the bike and have them running. LOL I must be tripping. LOL That's nut's my eyes and what I was reading where playing tricks on me. It's been a long weekend and I'm very tired
The bike is just stalling when you crack the throttle. Its like it starts sucking but all it gets is air and not any fuel, if it doesn't completely die it will start to rev after a second but there is a long pause where the bike is stalling rather than running. and the revs will drop to 500 from the 1100 idle I have it set at
I think you need to start with the basics. Start with the ignition system and make sure you have a healthy spark at each cylinder. Then move on to fuel, make sure fuel is getting through to the carbs. Vacuum hoses and stuff are all connected up correctly etc. Carbs are clean, jetted and working correctly. Then move onto mechanical and if you still have issues after this then all that is left is electrical.
I'm going to take a step back now and see if any others have some input here.
(:-})
10-07-2013 | 12:39 PM
#34
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
It does a lot of different things. Every time I start it it seems to act a little different.
Pictured is the correct location of said hose right? my mystery hose is actually located between the piece of plastic and the frame towards the bottom right of this photo. It comes to a T by the right radiator and empties out under the oil filter on the bottom of the bike. I cant tell where the other side of the T is going other than its in between the two cylinders under the carbs. I lose it from there and cant tell where its going. I believe it to be plugged up to the coolant overflow though.
I synced the carbs (they were 5psi apart from each other) and it ran out of fuel but seemed to be acting a little nicer. I'm unsure at this point if I should go ahead while its apart and put the cams 180* from where they are now to check that or if I should reassemble and test first.
Pictured is the correct location of said hose right? my mystery hose is actually located between the piece of plastic and the frame towards the bottom right of this photo. It comes to a T by the right radiator and empties out under the oil filter on the bottom of the bike. I cant tell where the other side of the T is going other than its in between the two cylinders under the carbs. I lose it from there and cant tell where its going. I believe it to be plugged up to the coolant overflow though.
I synced the carbs (they were 5psi apart from each other) and it ran out of fuel but seemed to be acting a little nicer. I'm unsure at this point if I should go ahead while its apart and put the cams 180* from where they are now to check that or if I should reassemble and test first.
10-07-2013 | 01:16 PM
#36
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 397
From: UK
That hose is nothing to do with what Honda have done as far as I'm aware. It looks like the remains of a front cylinder vacuum take off for a Scotoiler (chain oiler) or something. Make sure it not still connected to the vacuum because if it is and the end outlet is not capped off it could cause issues.
I wouldn't jump straight into the deep end and change the timing just yet. Like I have said all the syptoms you have described so far don't suggst it to be 180 out. And if like you say the rear was set to TDC on the compression stroke before being removed and the crank has not been moved. The head gets put back on and cams put back in correctly ie lobes as they where, pointing upwards and inwards, then the timing should be the same.
But it's your bike and you have to use your own judgement as you know the symptoms and how it's behaving etc. Use that along with the advice and help from the forum. Unfortunately we can't test ride or hear your bike for ourselves so all we have to go on is from what you describe. Like I said earlier it wont do any harm to try it, so if you want to rule out the 180 then do so. But it very well could be a waste of time apart from elimination.
(:-})
I wouldn't jump straight into the deep end and change the timing just yet. Like I have said all the syptoms you have described so far don't suggst it to be 180 out. And if like you say the rear was set to TDC on the compression stroke before being removed and the crank has not been moved. The head gets put back on and cams put back in correctly ie lobes as they where, pointing upwards and inwards, then the timing should be the same.
But it's your bike and you have to use your own judgement as you know the symptoms and how it's behaving etc. Use that along with the advice and help from the forum. Unfortunately we can't test ride or hear your bike for ourselves so all we have to go on is from what you describe. Like I said earlier it wont do any harm to try it, so if you want to rule out the 180 then do so. But it very well could be a waste of time apart from elimination.
(:-})
10-07-2013 | 02:05 PM
#37
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
I just now ran it with the airbox off after trying the cams 180* but previously no. I was taking the time to put the airbox on and off between tests. It seemed like just now after trying to reposition the cams the bike was worse, it wasn't smooth at all and was bucking and angry at idle, however it did rev freely up to 3k before falling on its face.
Alright Carl I'm confused, are you saying the hose that I have hooked up to that brass colored piece is wrong? or are you talking about the hose you cant really see in the picture? I have tested the other hose and it does not have any vacuum to it, however the hose plugged into the little dohickey does
Alright Carl I'm confused, are you saying the hose that I have hooked up to that brass colored piece is wrong? or are you talking about the hose you cant really see in the picture? I have tested the other hose and it does not have any vacuum to it, however the hose plugged into the little dohickey does
10-07-2013 | 02:40 PM
#38
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 397
From: UK
I have hooked up to that brass colored piece is wrong?
From Honda the front is blanked off. Most VTR owners will remove the cap and fit a hose for a front vaccum take off for syncing carbs. I'm talking about the one in the pic. It may have previously at some point been attached to the front vacuum take off for something else like a Scottoiler or something so most likely redundant now and just leftovers from the previous owner to confuse the new owner LOL The T peice is a bit of a give away as well because they are often used to tap into a vacuum hose if it's in use already.
I think you have some left over remains of something where someone has had accessories. So you could most likely remove all those hoses/t-pieces we can't account for.
Do you have the front vacuum take off for carb sync in the brass nipple then. If you have make sure the other end is capped off.
(:-})
10-07-2013 | 02:53 PM
#39
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Superstock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 397
From: UK
Just had another thought. That little hose on the bottom right of the pic looks like it goes into the loom. It's not an alarm wire is it. Maybe an arial for a remote key. 
Could do with seeing a better pic that is not such a close up and shows the whole area including your front vacuum take off/brass nipple.
I see you still have the emissions thing there as well. I would double check all the emissions/PAIR setup and the front brass nipple. That nipple should either be capped off or you will have a hose coming from it for carb sync or something else. Either way the end/s need to be capped off otherwise you have a vaccum leak which could be causing your problems. A bit like when people put the rear one on the wrong nipple on the petcock.
It feels like were getting closer to resolving this now. But I can't help with the emissions/PAIR as I don't have them and am unclear on what goes where.
(:-})
Could do with seeing a better pic that is not such a close up and shows the whole area including your front vacuum take off/brass nipple.I see you still have the emissions thing there as well. I would double check all the emissions/PAIR setup and the front brass nipple. That nipple should either be capped off or you will have a hose coming from it for carb sync or something else. Either way the end/s need to be capped off otherwise you have a vaccum leak which could be causing your problems. A bit like when people put the rear one on the wrong nipple on the petcock.
It feels like were getting closer to resolving this now. But I can't help with the emissions/PAIR as I don't have them and am unclear on what goes where.
(:-})
10-07-2013 | 03:11 PM
#41
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From: Rome, GA
SON OF A MOTHERF$*&#(@. I think I just figured out what I did wrong. Whoever mentioned PVLIR first, you win a cookie. I didn't realize there were TWO nipples on the petcock (insert banging head on brick wall image) I just read the carb rebuild thread in anticipation and it said "DO NOT PLUG VACUUM LINE INTO BOTTOM OF PETCOCK, IT GOES IN THE BACK"
Went out and checked.. yep.. there is another place to put that damn hose.. I'm now pretty sure that my cams are 180* out since I decided to check that to cross it off the list.. I'm going to go hang my head in shame now and eat dinner.. Then to flip the cams the right way.. then I'm gonna sell the damn thing and get a suzuki and start riding in a wife beater, gym shorts, and flip flops as I'm starting to think that that might be more my speed after this experience
Went out and checked.. yep.. there is another place to put that damn hose.. I'm now pretty sure that my cams are 180* out since I decided to check that to cross it off the list.. I'm going to go hang my head in shame now and eat dinner.. Then to flip the cams the right way.. then I'm gonna sell the damn thing and get a suzuki and start riding in a wife beater, gym shorts, and flip flops as I'm starting to think that that might be more my speed after this experience
10-07-2013 | 03:17 PM
#42
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Superstock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 397
From: UK
PMSL oh no.....vacuum hose strikes again FFS how many more people is that going to catch out. I thought the petcock had already been ruled out for crying out loud. LOL Oh well got there in the end, I'm just pleased it's been figured out as I was starting to bang my head against the wall too.
(:-})
(:-})
Last edited by cybercarl; 10-07-2013 at 03:20 PM.
10-07-2013 | 03:35 PM
#43
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 458
From: Rome, GA
I'm sorry for the aggravation Carl, when someone told me that there are two places to put it I thought they meant the vent hose or overflow hose, whatever those two are and not that there were two nipples on the petcock 
Thanks everyone for your patience with me.. Hopefully before I go to bed I will have a normal running hawk again. 30 mins till dinner and I don't feel like tackling that again til after dinner. Im at the same time laughing my *** off that it was that stupid and frustrated that after all that work it was that stupid. It explains everything. Why it ran fine when I first threw it back together until I came back out to ride it because I had run it out of gas idleing in the garage, why it idled fine but wouldn't take throttle.
It just makes sense now and it should have before but I was too damn stubborn to see it.
Deatons, I think I owe you an apology most of all because you hit the nail on the head and I just about bit your head off for it because I was sure that I had already covered that. I am truly sorry for that.
Thanks everyone for your patience with me.. Hopefully before I go to bed I will have a normal running hawk again. 30 mins till dinner and I don't feel like tackling that again til after dinner. Im at the same time laughing my *** off that it was that stupid and frustrated that after all that work it was that stupid. It explains everything. Why it ran fine when I first threw it back together until I came back out to ride it because I had run it out of gas idleing in the garage, why it idled fine but wouldn't take throttle.
It just makes sense now and it should have before but I was too damn stubborn to see it.
Deatons, I think I owe you an apology most of all because you hit the nail on the head and I just about bit your head off for it because I was sure that I had already covered that. I am truly sorry for that.
10-08-2013 | 08:18 AM
#47
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
PVLIR is on the prowl this week! Another strike on an unsuspecting mechanic...
Swapping cams because a line is hooked up wrong is pretty good, but still doesn't quite outshine that time that smokinjoe swapped motors because of a bad tank of gas!
Swapping cams because a line is hooked up wrong is pretty good, but still doesn't quite outshine that time that smokinjoe swapped motors because of a bad tank of gas!
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