98 SH chain length???? help
03-18-2012 | 09:46 PM
#6
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Just finished replacing the chain and sprockets on my '98 VTR1000. According to the Honda service manual, the OEM chain is a 530 with 102 links. I kept the countershaft sprocket as 16T, but I installed a 44T rear sprocket so the chain is longer than OEM (by 1 or 2 links??). I installed JT sprockets and an RK R-Ring chain (530XS0Z 1).
Some confusion after reading the procedure in the service manual. To remove the slave cylinder assembly, it states to first pull in the clutch lever and keep it tied closed to the grip, then remove the bolts and the assembly, which I didn't do. Wouldn't that push the slave cylinder out, making it difficult to re-install the assembly?? I just removed the assembly (2 cover bolts then 3 slave cylinder bolts) and left the assembly dangling as I completed the work.
I have a cutter/rivetting tool, but used an electric grinder to grind the link pins flush with the link plate and used a chisel and hammer to gently remove the plate to remove the link to get the old chain off. Also the same approach to cut the new chain to proper length.
The slave cylinder moved out a bit, but the assembly wasn't difficult to re-install. I just pushed it back on gently and re-installed the bolts in reverse order and tightened these evenly to close up the gap between the assembly and the crankcase.
The gearing is a bit shorter now, I always thought it was a bit too tall. Should be good for another 30,000 miles.
Some confusion after reading the procedure in the service manual. To remove the slave cylinder assembly, it states to first pull in the clutch lever and keep it tied closed to the grip, then remove the bolts and the assembly, which I didn't do. Wouldn't that push the slave cylinder out, making it difficult to re-install the assembly?? I just removed the assembly (2 cover bolts then 3 slave cylinder bolts) and left the assembly dangling as I completed the work.
I have a cutter/rivetting tool, but used an electric grinder to grind the link pins flush with the link plate and used a chisel and hammer to gently remove the plate to remove the link to get the old chain off. Also the same approach to cut the new chain to proper length.
The slave cylinder moved out a bit, but the assembly wasn't difficult to re-install. I just pushed it back on gently and re-installed the bolts in reverse order and tightened these evenly to close up the gap between the assembly and the crankcase.
The gearing is a bit shorter now, I always thought it was a bit too tall. Should be good for another 30,000 miles.
Last edited by storm_rider; 03-18-2012 at 10:15 PM.
03-18-2012 | 09:57 PM
#7
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Be sure to give us some ride impressions. I'm curious how the wheelie prone bike will like the shorter legs. Especially on full throttle shifts at redline from 1-2. Does it bring the wheel up? Had a Ducati that I shortened the gearing on and it would do that on a hard 1-2 shift. It was loads of fun. 
03-18-2012 | 10:14 PM
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Yep, will do, I expect it will be easier to pull monos.
Winter is trying to hang on around here, but Spring break-up is approaching fast. Should be able to do some riding later this week. Last weekend I went sledding in the mornings and DR650 riding in the afternoons when the temperature went several degrees above freezing, the main roads were bare and dry.
Winter is trying to hang on around here, but Spring break-up is approaching fast. Should be able to do some riding later this week. Last weekend I went sledding in the mornings and DR650 riding in the afternoons when the temperature went several degrees above freezing, the main roads were bare and dry.
03-23-2012 | 07:37 AM
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So do you have to replace the fluid and bleed the clutch when replacing the chain and sprockets? I need new ones in the worst way and I know it's just good sense to change the fluid out but not sure how to replace/ bleed and lam that. If only there was a way to type in stuff and search for the answers..... Lol
03-23-2012 | 07:46 AM
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If you squeeze the clutch lever, the slave cylinder gets pulled in and can't work itself back out so you don't have to bleed the clutch afterward. You don't have to replace the clutch fluid to change the chain, but make sure to pull and tie that clutch lever in.
03-23-2012 | 08:43 AM
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From: lynnwood w.a
hmmm I was always to keep the sprockets if they were in good condition mean no angle cut teeth or signs of unusual wear.and on my dirt bike I've aways done just chain till te sprockets showed wear.I could b wrong tho
so when u say make sure the clutch lever is tied back u mean like tied to the handle grip as in the disengaged position? so if i do take the sprocket cover off I have to me sure its disengaged before so theclutch can't push itself all the way out causing u to resend bleed it? sorry I'm trying to understand it and picture it in my head just want to make sure I have it right ,tomorrow I'm replacing it along with installing my under tail kit.
so when u say make sure the clutch lever is tied back u mean like tied to the handle grip as in the disengaged position? so if i do take the sprocket cover off I have to me sure its disengaged before so theclutch can't push itself all the way out causing u to resend bleed it? sorry I'm trying to understand it and picture it in my head just want to make sure I have it right ,tomorrow I'm replacing it along with installing my under tail kit.
03-23-2012 | 09:31 AM
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Nope, with this bike you have options! If you *must* be destructive and use tools to manipulate metal, I don't know why you would think that would be fun
But yeah, if you're comfortable with how your sprockets look, then you can cut the old one and sneak the new one through.
I've always understood that if you put a new chain on old sprockets, they will both wear faster, but have heard of people doing it your way all the time.
But yeah, if you're comfortable with how your sprockets look, then you can cut the old one and sneak the new one through.
I've always understood that if you put a new chain on old sprockets, they will both wear faster, but have heard of people doing it your way all the time.
03-23-2012 | 11:02 AM
#16
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nothing like cutting stuff up on Saturday morning after a long week at work.a great start in my book
I do agree with u on the chain nd sprocket.but after talking to a few guys at the bike shops they said if they look good ur fine.Thu say its ok to do a new chain on an old sprocket but not a new sprocket on a old chain.so i went with it and ill see how it goes.
I do agree with u on the chain nd sprocket.but after talking to a few guys at the bike shops they said if they look good ur fine.Thu say its ok to do a new chain on an old sprocket but not a new sprocket on a old chain.so i went with it and ill see how it goes.
03-26-2012 | 07:20 PM
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Be sure to give us some ride impressions. I'm curious how the wheelie prone bike will like the shorter legs. Especially on full throttle shifts at redline from 1-2. Does it bring the wheel up? Had a Ducati that I shortened the gearing on and it would do that on a hard 1-2 shift. It was loads of fun.
Gruntier and incredibly faster too, got going north of a buck-seventy in a hurry, or so it seemed!
Speedo error of course.
03-27-2012 | 09:48 PM
#18
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would u b able to get away with a 44 tooth rear sprocket and down a tooth in the front nd still keep it stock length Chain? or just up to a 44 in the rear and still keep the stock chain?
03-28-2012 | 11:33 PM
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Might be the same length as OEM with a 15T countershaft and 44T rear sprocket, still need to fit the chain on and see how many links are needed.
I didn't pull in the clutch lever and tie it closed before removing the countershaft sprocket cover / slave cylinder assembly, as recommended to do so according to the service manual. No issues with re-assembly and no need to bleed the system.
Going with the 44T rear sprocket is a great improvement, wish I had done it sooner.
I didn't pull in the clutch lever and tie it closed before removing the countershaft sprocket cover / slave cylinder assembly, as recommended to do so according to the service manual. No issues with re-assembly and no need to bleed the system.
Going with the 44T rear sprocket is a great improvement, wish I had done it sooner.
03-29-2012 | 07:16 AM
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I replaced the counter shaft sprocket with the OEM size which is 16T. Shorter gearing will impact fuel economy for sure, but then this machine isn't the one to own if fuel economy is the objective. It's a fun ride.
03-29-2012 | 07:43 AM
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Guys, search gearing threads. There will be more than enough info on highway mileage, acceleration, chain length and people's opinions concerning these.
Also you can't shorten/lengthen it by 1 link It's always gotta be 2, 4, 6, etc...
Also you can't shorten/lengthen it by 1 link
It's always gotta be 2, 4, 6, etc...
05-14-2012 | 11:23 AM
#23
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Apparently nothing. The chain broke this morning on a somewhat hard acceleration on my way to work. One of the pins sheered in half! I'm thinking I got what he paid for. A cheap chain! UGH! Now reading this thread I'm questioning the sprockets as a possible cause. Haven't had a chance to really inspect them but if he replaced the chain and not the sprockets and the last chain was worn out then that's possibly a reason for it breaking.
The reason you have to replace them all at the same time is because as the chain wears it stretches. Then as the sprockets wear they wear with the longer distance between teeth to match the chain. At best this makes which ever new part you just put in wear faster because instead of evenly contacting the sprockets and the chain rollers all the way around the sprockets it's stressing and only putting the pressure on the few teeth of the sprocket closest to the drive so it concentrates the load on a smaller portion of the chain at best stretching it prematurely or at worst causing it to fail.
I’m just waiting to see what else fails on this bike that the previous owner worked on that I’ll need to fix! UGH!
05-14-2012 | 11:49 AM
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A couple of points to address on this thread.
The reason for tying the clutch lever back is due to design of the system.
The slave cylinder has a spring in it and if you leave the lever out when the spring pushes the slave out when you remove it, it will suck air into the system.
To remove the sprocket cover the easiest way is to remove the two (2) outer bolts from the slave cylinder and leave the inner bolt in place, this way the slave cylinder stays attached to the sprocket cover. Some find it easier and some don't but it does work pretty good.
Now for gearing.....all I can say is do a search... it has been well covered.
To keep things short, if you go much past 16\43 you have now turned 2nd into 1st and made 1st all but unusable.
IMHO if you need more grunt in 1st, twist the throttle. If you are not using full throttle or hitting it between 5-6K then you are not using the power you have.
Mine will flip over backwards in 1st with stock gearing, so what is to be gained by going lower?
The reason for tying the clutch lever back is due to design of the system.
The slave cylinder has a spring in it and if you leave the lever out when the spring pushes the slave out when you remove it, it will suck air into the system.
To remove the sprocket cover the easiest way is to remove the two (2) outer bolts from the slave cylinder and leave the inner bolt in place, this way the slave cylinder stays attached to the sprocket cover. Some find it easier and some don't but it does work pretty good.
Now for gearing.....all I can say is do a search... it has been well covered.
To keep things short, if you go much past 16\43 you have now turned 2nd into 1st and made 1st all but unusable.
IMHO if you need more grunt in 1st, twist the throttle. If you are not using full throttle or hitting it between 5-6K then you are not using the power you have.
Mine will flip over backwards in 1st with stock gearing, so what is to be gained by going lower?
05-14-2012 | 01:07 PM
#25
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Gotta say Hawk I couldn't agree with you more! These things are so torquey to begin with they don't need lower gearing. If anything I'd go up, not down. When you can stand the front end straight up in the air at pretty much any RPM in 1st gear you don't need shorter legs.
05-22-2012 | 03:33 PM
#26
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I 3rd that,
05-22-2012 | 04:29 PM
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I 4th that and add this. My training and racing years ago held two axioms. Always use the tallest countershaft sprocket the motor would pull and never use counter shaft and rear sprockets with both having an even number of teeth. You can run even numbers on one or the other but not both. If I recall (and I'm not sure I do) it was a chain stretch issue or an old mechanics tale. If I was doing track days I'd be trying a 17T countershaft and see if it made first gear more usable and no I don't know if it would fit but it looks like it would, just haven't tried it.
05-22-2012 | 04:43 PM
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^ It's a slight wear issue if the teeth of the front and rear sprockets are divisible by the same number (say 2 or 3), much more so if they are divisible by each other (say 15/45). Not a huge deal in the former case, it just means that if one of the links of the chain is uneven or tight or something it will hit some teeth on the sprockets more often than others, causing faster wear. In the later case it will hit the same spot every time around, which I would avoid.
05-22-2012 | 05:31 PM
#30
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Uh, lets stop and think about that for a moment. How does the number of teeth on the counter vs rear sprockets affect each other? If there is a kink in the chain or a bad link it matters the number of links in the chain if it hits the same spot on the chain every time, not the amount of teeth on the other sprocket. Or am I totally missing something here?
