Nicky Hayden going to Ducati....
#1
Nicky Hayden going to Ducati....
Looks like its going to be official in a few days..Nicky Hayden is going to Ducati for 09:
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...expected-soon/
Can't say we blame him, not the way Repsol treated him...Torrance is probably going nuts right now!
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...expected-soon/
Can't say we blame him, not the way Repsol treated him...Torrance is probably going nuts right now!
#2
i think it a good career decision( from what i hear and read from time to time about the struggles honda gives him). just seems like honda doesnt care enough about him so let him go to ducati. i honestly cant say ive watched a motogp race, but i am dying to and about to order the speed channel haha and get the dvr or whatever it is that records stuff.
hopefully ducati will focus on both riders needs and not just build a bike for one to use and the other to be like wtfmate?!
hopefully ducati will focus on both riders needs and not just build a bike for one to use and the other to be like wtfmate?!
#3
You are jumping the gun...
Looks like its going to be official in a few days..Nicky Hayden is going to Ducati for 09:
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...expected-soon/
Can't say we blame him, not the way Repsol treated him...Torrance is probably going nuts right now!
http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...expected-soon/
Can't say we blame him, not the way Repsol treated him...Torrance is probably going nuts right now!
#4
I like Nicky and think he'll go well on the Desmo. Both him and Stoner come from a dirt track/speedway background and that kind of style seems to be what the duc needs to succeed.
Good luck to him. He's a nice kid and thoroughly deserved his championship, inspite of what the naysayers might believe.
Good luck to him. He's a nice kid and thoroughly deserved his championship, inspite of what the naysayers might believe.
#5
i think it a good career decision( from what i hear and read from time to time about the struggles honda gives him). just seems like honda doesnt care enough about him so let him go to ducati.
hopefully ducati will focus on both riders needs and not just build a bike for one to use and the other to be like wtfmate?!
hopefully ducati will focus on both riders needs and not just build a bike for one to use and the other to be like wtfmate?!
Honda did Nicky no favors. Even during his winning season it seemed as though they did all they could to keep him from winning. Making him test all kinds of unproven parts in the midst of the Championship points chase. "Hey Nick, try out this clutch, it's reeeeal good". Um, yeah right.
Hope he kicks Pee-Wee Pedrosa's midget *** on the Duc.
#6
Honda should have payed attention
OOHH my god!This is a great step for Nicky and MotoGP in general. I cant wait to see his years of experience onboard twins shine through on his new Duc. Stoner and Hayden are going to clean the F up in 09.
As for Honda, I hope that this will serve as an eye opener for HRC. You can't hold a dude like that back by using him as a test pilot for equipment that may or may not succeed. They just took a hard hit!
-Go Nicky!
As for Honda, I hope that this will serve as an eye opener for HRC. You can't hold a dude like that back by using him as a test pilot for equipment that may or may not succeed. They just took a hard hit!
-Go Nicky!
#7
OOHH my god!This is a great step for Nicky and MotoGP in general. I cant wait to see his years of experience onboard twins shine through on his new Duc. Stoner and Hayden are going to clean the F up in 09.
As for Honda, I hope that this will serve as an eye opener for HRC. You can't hold a dude like that back by using him as a test pilot for equipment that may or may not succeed. They just took a hard hit!
-Go Nicky!
As for Honda, I hope that this will serve as an eye opener for HRC. You can't hold a dude like that back by using him as a test pilot for equipment that may or may not succeed. They just took a hard hit!
-Go Nicky!
#14
Sure, this might be a good move for Nicky, but only time will tell. I don't agree with the comments about Nicky and Honda. Guys - they gave him a MotoGP ride and a second contract (which he signed, let's not forget). Who else are giving this stuff to? Not many. So what that he's been second to Pedrosa. He's had some bad luck over the past two seasons but he's also posted some decent results too. He's probably in a rut and nothing better than a bike change to help that out. Thus my opening statement.
GO NICKY!
GO NICKY!
#15
You know I'm almost afraid to post this because I know I will get shouted down but let me say what I believe to be true.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
Last edited by HRCA#1; 08-24-2008 at 09:02 PM.
#16
You know I'm almost afraid to post this because I know I will get shouted down but let me say what I believe to be true.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
However I believe that KR started the technique of hanging off in corners, which was a huge rider advancement.
I like Nicky for his skills and the way he handles himself off the track, but you may be right. In too many races the last 2 seasons he's lost places near the end of the race. But I hope the change will bring back some of his fire.
#17
You know I'm almost afraid to post this because I know I will get shouted down but let me say what I believe to be true.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
Nicky is a good rider, not a great rider. Spencer was a great rider. Lawson and Rainey were great riders. Kenny Roberts and Rossi (both of whom I can't stand) are great riders.
Nicky is in the class of one trick ponies like Marco Luchinelli, KRJR, Franco Uncini, Kevin Swantz and Wayne Gardner. That's why HRC has never put him at the top of their spreadsheets for the future.
Maybe a switch to Ducati would be good for him but I would remind you there are 4 Duc's in the field only one is competative..Stoner.
#18
I hope so too but I don't think the raw talent is there. I wrote in another thread what a former Race Team manager once told me "there are A riders and B riders then everybody else" The difference is and A rider can win on B equipment, a B rider can sometimes win on A equipment, and everybody else is racing for 10th.
Your comment about anging off is true but whats more importantant is the epic Spencer/Roberts battles refining rear wheel steering
(a lost art with traction control) and something Nicky can do if they unplug some of the electronics. Maybe Ducati will recognize this. Will it make Nicky an A rider..no but it would let a B rider win on A equipment
Your comment about anging off is true but whats more importantant is the epic Spencer/Roberts battles refining rear wheel steering
(a lost art with traction control) and something Nicky can do if they unplug some of the electronics. Maybe Ducati will recognize this. Will it make Nicky an A rider..no but it would let a B rider win on A equipment
Last edited by HRCA#1; 08-24-2008 at 09:40 PM.
#19
Man, this is a tough crowd!
I think Hayden is an "A" rider. Any guy who can win a Motogp championship is.
"A" ride or not, I don't think "B" riders win very often.
And guys who can consistently win on "B" rides aren't called "A" riders, they're called legends.
I think Hayden is an "A" rider. Any guy who can win a Motogp championship is.
"A" ride or not, I don't think "B" riders win very often.
And guys who can consistently win on "B" rides aren't called "A" riders, they're called legends.
#20
Yeah, in last weeks AMA race Freddie was talking about how traction control is causing more nasty high sides, since the rider can't control rear slide himself. Evidently sometimes the rear starts to slide a little, depending on how the TC is set up, then the TC kicks in and the rider gets launched.
#21
If you want to talk legends then all of these guys pale compared to Agostini, Hailwood, Redman, Surtees and some others, but that's a different thread
#22
ALL of these guys pale, including Rossi, compared to those guys? Different eras are kind of hard (read: impossible) to compare, but Rossi doesn't pale compared to anyone.
#23
I'd say Freddie Spencer qualifies at near legend status, having won both 250cc and 500cc World Championships in the same year. Plus 2 more 500cc titles, and 750cc AMA Superbike titles as well (not sure of the number of those).
#24
Almost exactly my point. Your Right "B" riders don't win very often, how many wins does Nicky have 4 or 5 in 4 years on what was clearly an "A" ride in the 990cc days! How many does Rossi have in the same time frame on what was and is clearly a "B" bike a dozen or more.
If you want to talk legends then all of these guys pale compared to Agostini, Hailwood, Redman, Surtees and some others, but that's a different thread
If you want to talk legends then all of these guys pale compared to Agostini, Hailwood, Redman, Surtees and some others, but that's a different thread
As for guys like Hailwood and Agostini who won on 60 or 70 horsepower bikes when the talent pool was a tiny fraction of what it became later vs. a King Kenny or Rossi? Don't be so sure.
#25
AS for AMA titles I think he only won one. The best Superbike rider Honda ever had was named Fred only it was Merkel not Spencer. Unfortunately his lifestyle got in the way of his greatness. He went to Europe and won World Superbike Championships and lived avida loca over there and I think still does.
#26
I understand what you're saying. My point is that what you're calling "A" riders is what I call legends. In the modern era, 500 cc two stroke, 990 cc and 800 cc 4 stroke, your definition of "A" would be limited to Kenny Sr., Spencer, Rossi and maybe Doohan and Lawson? Of the thousands of guys racing there have only been 5 "A" riders in the last thirty years? Again, those guys aren't mere "A" riders, they're legends.
As for guys like Hailwood and Agostini who won on 60 or 70 horsepower bikes when the talent pool was a tiny fraction of what it became later vs. a King Kenny or Rossi? Don't be so sure.
As for guys like Hailwood and Agostini who won on 60 or 70 horsepower bikes when the talent pool was a tiny fraction of what it became later vs. a King Kenny or Rossi? Don't be so sure.
As far as those old timers riding 60 or 70 hp bikes your right they didn't make that much power but Hailwood and Agostini rode the wheels off of them on treaded tired tires with wire wheels that were barely 2'' wide and drum brakes at speeds over 120 mph on tracks lined with stone fences.
Agostini was still winning races in the 70's in the "Modern" era on Yamaha 500cc 2 strokes and Hailwood came out of retirement at 40 or 41 and rode an NCR Ducati to win the Ilse of Mann..don't tell me about legends!
#27
I think your missing my point. When I talk about "A" riders and "B" Riders I'm not focusing on MotoGP but on roadracing in general especially here in the US. But the truth of AvsB holds true even for MotoGP. Edwards was an "A" Superbike rider he's never been more than a "B" motogp guy.
As far as those old timers riding 60 or 70 hp bikes your right they didn't make that much power but Hailwood and Agostini rode the wheels off of them on treaded tired tires with wire wheels that were barely 2'' wide and drum brakes at speeds over 120 mph on tracks lined with stone fences.
Agostini was still winning races in the 70's in the "Modern" era on Yamaha 500cc 2 strokes and Hailwood came out of retirement at 40 or 41 and rode an NCR Ducati to win the Ilse of Mann..don't tell me about legends!
As far as those old timers riding 60 or 70 hp bikes your right they didn't make that much power but Hailwood and Agostini rode the wheels off of them on treaded tired tires with wire wheels that were barely 2'' wide and drum brakes at speeds over 120 mph on tracks lined with stone fences.
Agostini was still winning races in the 70's in the "Modern" era on Yamaha 500cc 2 strokes and Hailwood came out of retirement at 40 or 41 and rode an NCR Ducati to win the Ilse of Mann..don't tell me about legends!
I figured you were talking about "road racing in general" and so am I, that's why I maintain that pretty much any guy who earns a factory ride in Motogp is considered an "A" rider by me, and by the company who decided to invest millions in him.
I think it's cool that Hailwood came out of retirement and won Isle of Man, but if that's the benchmark, you'd have to anoint Joey Dunlop the greatest racer of all time. Maybe he was. The Irish certainly think so. I'm just not sure how he'd do on a Motogp bike against Rossi and Stoner.
#28
Let me put it this way;
Is it possible that Hailwood and Agostini, if they were 25 years old in 2008 would be beating Rossi and Stoner? Absolutely "possible". We'll never know for sure. But because the talent pool and competition are orders of magnitude greater than 40-50 years ago, I wouldn't bet on it.
Is it possible that Hailwood and Agostini, if they were 25 years old in 2008 would be beating Rossi and Stoner? Absolutely "possible". We'll never know for sure. But because the talent pool and competition are orders of magnitude greater than 40-50 years ago, I wouldn't bet on it.
#29
This is fun anyhow. Like arguing whether a 25 year old Rocky Marciano could have beaten a 25 year old Muhammad Ali.
I figured you were talking about "road racing in general" and so am I, that's why I maintain that pretty much any guy who earns a factory ride in Motogp is considered an "A" rider by me, and by the company who decided to invest millions in him.
I think it's cool that Hailwood came out of retirement and won Isle of Man, but if that's the benchmark, you'd have to anoint Joey Dunlop the greatest racer of all time. Maybe he was. The Irish certainly think so. I'm just not sure how he'd do on a Motogp bike against Rossi and Stoner.
I figured you were talking about "road racing in general" and so am I, that's why I maintain that pretty much any guy who earns a factory ride in Motogp is considered an "A" rider by me, and by the company who decided to invest millions in him.
I think it's cool that Hailwood came out of retirement and won Isle of Man, but if that's the benchmark, you'd have to anoint Joey Dunlop the greatest racer of all time. Maybe he was. The Irish certainly think so. I'm just not sure how he'd do on a Motogp bike against Rossi and Stoner.
Well and then for the fun of it take that argument and turn it upside down...
Take any and I mean any of the great A or B riders or legends and offer them a full factory sponsored ride in the upcoming IoM and let them walk the track, and see the qualifying...
They'd run and hide, and then they'd call home to mommy... And that's with the "new and improved" track with "safety features" ie they wrapped the haybales in a tarp to stop them from moving away when the riders hit them...
IoM isn't a benchmark, it's a sanity test... I have driven the track on the VTR during the preparation for a IoM, they create the track a few days ahead and cut of trafic, and it's completely legal to ride the track (I think this has changed now though?), no speedlimits, but also no haybales, no ambulance, no recovery crew, and absolutely no insurance coverage...
I took my time and just about every local nut went zooming past me... But I got one thing straigth doing those 2 laps... To go that track at road legal speeds without constant breaking, you have to be a good rider, to go at "fun speed" you have to be a very good rider (a lot better than me!)... To achive the speeds of the race... Well you have to be a very, very god rider, and absolutely barking mad...
There are places where I question the sanity of the people that put up the speedlimit signs, and there are places I started questioning my own sanity... And then the next second a brit bike with taped up bodywork, dented slip-on and half a windscreen would bolt past me and barely touch the brakes before giving a twist... and mind you the state of those bikes attested to the fact that these guys wheren't even close to as good as the racers...
#30
Let me put it this way;
Is it possible that Hailwood and Agostini, if they were 25 years old in 2008 would be beating Rossi and Stoner? Absolutely "possible". We'll never know for sure. But because the talent pool and competition are orders of magnitude greater than 40-50 years ago, I wouldn't bet on it.
Is it possible that Hailwood and Agostini, if they were 25 years old in 2008 would be beating Rossi and Stoner? Absolutely "possible". We'll never know for sure. But because the talent pool and competition are orders of magnitude greater than 40-50 years ago, I wouldn't bet on it.
As for Joey Dunlop well he was the greatest TT'er of all time but I'm not clear on his record off the IOM, but no doubt he was the man to beat on the IOM.
As for Teety's comments let me say that in my prime you couldn't have paid me enough to race there. Those boy's are dead bang nuts!
And by the way Marciano would have knocked Cassius Clay out in round 1.