American made(assembled) V Twin sportbike
07-15-2010 | 07:04 PM
#61
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From: In a van down by the river (I wish!)
Anyhow...
That's very interesting, Davidka. You know, they would do a lot more business if they advertised this better. I googled it after I posted and didn't really find anything. Hm...
That's very interesting, Davidka. You know, they would do a lot more business if they advertised this better. I googled it after I posted and didn't really find anything. Hm...
07-16-2010 | 12:17 AM
#62
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Squid
Joined: Oct 2008
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From: San Pedro, Ca
Are you guys really salivating over a die cast Hyosung because it's bolted together in America? No accounting for taste.
Look at the size of the front axle. I'd be amazed if that fork were made in China-- it looks like maybe it was made in Guinea.
I do like the *** heater, my crack gets absolutely frigid on some rides. I didn't know Ohlins still made damping rod shocks, either. [/troll]
Look at the size of the front axle. I'd be amazed if that fork were made in China-- it looks like maybe it was made in Guinea.
I do like the *** heater, my crack gets absolutely frigid on some rides. I didn't know Ohlins still made damping rod shocks, either. [/troll]
07-16-2010 | 01:22 AM
#63
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What's wrong with that front axle? It looks to be a 20mm axle, just like a lot of other bikes... Including the VTR...
BTW Hyosung used to be a licensed engine builder for Suzuki, making... You guessed it... the SV650 engine... So I guess they basicly copied the SV's engine, and massaged it a bit...
BTW Hyosung used to be a licensed engine builder for Suzuki, making... You guessed it... the SV650 engine... So I guess they basicly copied the SV's engine, and massaged it a bit...
07-16-2010 | 02:40 AM
#64
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These are just about to finally be sold here in Australia. They have been mentioned in the local bike media for a while, and are at present in the final stages of getting ADR (Australian Design Rules) compliance. I think they look great, but they will be a lot more expensive than the Hyosong 650. From memory the Hyosong 650 sports bike is nearly $10'000AUD, while the Fischer will be nearly $15'000AUD.
While 80hp sounds a little down on current specifications, it isn't that bad and can still be plenty of fun. The legendary Kawasaki Z1000 only made about 80hp, and the old 900 Ducati's didn't quite get to 70hp. For that matter, even the latter air cooled Ducati 900's were still a little shy of 80hp. Yamaha's TRX850 was another great bike with only 80hp. Bikes like the modern IL4 600's will have a lot more power, but using that power on the street won't be easy. None of them have much power until you get them well above 10'000rpm. I'd suggest that most riders would find the 650 twin with 80hp much quicker and less demanding to ride on the road.
While 80hp sounds a little down on current specifications, it isn't that bad and can still be plenty of fun. The legendary Kawasaki Z1000 only made about 80hp, and the old 900 Ducati's didn't quite get to 70hp. For that matter, even the latter air cooled Ducati 900's were still a little shy of 80hp. Yamaha's TRX850 was another great bike with only 80hp. Bikes like the modern IL4 600's will have a lot more power, but using that power on the street won't be easy. None of them have much power until you get them well above 10'000rpm. I'd suggest that most riders would find the 650 twin with 80hp much quicker and less demanding to ride on the road.
07-16-2010 | 04:02 AM
#65
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Our VAT is 10%. There are import duties, but mostly it is just about the smaller market and a perception by marketing people that Australia is a premium price market. Of course now with the internet they may need to re-evaluate there marketing strategies. It is much easier for us recognise the difference in pricing these days, and modern e-business has made it much easier to shop internationally. In this case it doesn't help us much because it is very costly to get overseas sourced vehicles on our roads, as they don't have an Australian compliance plate.
07-18-2010 | 11:20 AM
#66
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just to throw in my 10 cents, the SV650 engine and the Hyosung 650 engines are NOT the same....there was a post on my local forum, or was it here....of a guy selling an sv650 with a hyosung engine shoehorned in there...that was a monstrosity. no way was it safe to ride. none of the mounting points aligned, shoddy brackets had to be made. basically, a hack job. so no, they are not internchangable. I think the only things that the two engines share is the V twin configuration and the 650cc, on and they are 4 stroke.
07-18-2010 | 12:58 PM
#67
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That assumes that Hyosung has only one 650cc V-twin engine when it's very possible that they make a few different versions. Rotax makes several versions of their 1000-1125cc V-twin for Aprilia, Can-Am and Buell.
07-23-2010 | 10:24 AM
#69
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First off... great looking bike. And I'm guessing it has a top speed around 130mph or so. I've only ever hit that once or twice on the street ever, so I don't really need more if I'm not hitting the track.
I'll take top shelf frame, suspension and brakes over outright horsepower anyday for sport riding on the street. Throw in a great sounding v-twin and I'm good to go!
I'll take top shelf frame, suspension and brakes over outright horsepower anyday for sport riding on the street. Throw in a great sounding v-twin and I'm good to go!
07-23-2010 | 10:43 AM
#70
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If someone offered to buy me an $8k new bike I would say "Actually can you buy me an 09 CBR1000rr with 1000 miles on it for $8k?" I think any incentive to own a Fischer goes out the window when you consider what you can get for 8000 dollars.
07-23-2010 | 10:46 AM
#71
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First off... great looking bike. And I'm guessing it has a top speed around 130mph or so. I've only ever hit that once or twice on the street ever, so I don't really need more if I'm not hitting the track.
I'll take top shelf frame, suspension and brakes over outright horsepower anyday for sport riding on the street. Throw in a great sounding v-twin and I'm good to go!
I'll take top shelf frame, suspension and brakes over outright horsepower anyday for sport riding on the street. Throw in a great sounding v-twin and I'm good to go!
07-23-2010 | 11:41 AM
#72
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Yes, but is it actually usable on the road? Nope, not any better than the Fischer... Does it give you any sense of that you are using anything close to it's capacity? Nope... Still plenty left even on track unless you are a really, really good rider... Does it let you develop your skills without having to not let the bike "override" your own capacity... Nope...
I can go on for a while...
The basic difference here... You aren't the target group for the Fischer... I would probably be... So this discussion will keep going in circles...
07-23-2010 | 08:14 PM
#73
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To play the devil’s advocate: PW is probably looking at the stats, the Honda’s high-end suspension, and saying, “If riders of equal skill were on both machines, the CBR would be faster and it’s a better value to boot!” So he believes he sees a reality and thinks that we’re being dazzled by Marketing copy.
(Correct me if I’m wrong, of course.)
I would argue – and a lot of races I’ve forgotten from the late 1990s would confirm – that a grunty, lighter bike is faster in a lot of cases than a higher-horsepower I4. That is, in fact, one of the reasons the VTR (or more historically correct the RC51) was created. I quote from the perfect book, Wikipedia:
“From 1993 to 1999 Carl Fogarty and Ducati dominated, Fogarty won the title a record 4 times and finished as runner-up twice on factory Ducatis. Troy Corser also won the 1996 title and finished as runner-up in 1995, both times on a Ducati.
…
Realizing that 1000 cc V-twin engines suited the superbike racing formula more, Honda introduced its own V-Twin powered motorcycle the VTR1000/RC51 in 2000. The result was clear right away as Colin Edwards won the championship in the bike's first year of competition.”
I would also say that I’ve seen a fair share of I4 AND 1000cc V-twin riders humiliated by Hawk GTs and SV650 on the road. I’m sure there are streets where the I4 is invincible, but they probably aren’t all that fun… Long sweepers, maybe? Straighaways?
The other secret fact here is what the CBR would give up in the really tight stuff, it would make up as things became straight. So in the end, maybe the CBR would come in first. It all depends on the road. But who wants to go fast in straight lines?
But I agree that this is a great demonstration of Marketing at work!
(Correct me if I’m wrong, of course.)
I would argue – and a lot of races I’ve forgotten from the late 1990s would confirm – that a grunty, lighter bike is faster in a lot of cases than a higher-horsepower I4. That is, in fact, one of the reasons the VTR (or more historically correct the RC51) was created. I quote from the perfect book, Wikipedia:
“From 1993 to 1999 Carl Fogarty and Ducati dominated, Fogarty won the title a record 4 times and finished as runner-up twice on factory Ducatis. Troy Corser also won the 1996 title and finished as runner-up in 1995, both times on a Ducati.
…
Realizing that 1000 cc V-twin engines suited the superbike racing formula more, Honda introduced its own V-Twin powered motorcycle the VTR1000/RC51 in 2000. The result was clear right away as Colin Edwards won the championship in the bike's first year of competition.”
I would also say that I’ve seen a fair share of I4 AND 1000cc V-twin riders humiliated by Hawk GTs and SV650 on the road. I’m sure there are streets where the I4 is invincible, but they probably aren’t all that fun… Long sweepers, maybe? Straighaways?
The other secret fact here is what the CBR would give up in the really tight stuff, it would make up as things became straight. So in the end, maybe the CBR would come in first. It all depends on the road. But who wants to go fast in straight lines?
But I agree that this is a great demonstration of Marketing at work!
07-23-2010 | 10:41 PM
#74
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^^ Lets not forget that those 1000cc "grunty" V-twins of Ducati were going up against 800cc I4s...the rules were scewed in Ducatis favour because the organizers didnt want to see Ducati pull out. So Honda said fine, we'll show u what a jap V-twin 1000cc can do and entered the RC-51, and wiped the floor with Ducati ..same reason the Buells with 1200cc's were competing in the 600SS class...AMA didnt want the only american manufacturer to be left out of the running.
I think whats going to turn off a lot of potential buyers is the carburators...They are the thing of the past and nobody wants to fiddle with em anymore...god knows i dont! The days of hooking a laptop to a bike for tuning are here to stay...
Other thinking is....a brand new SV650S will come with ABS, a set of lower fairings will make it good looking, its Fuel injected, and most if not all suspension pieces from the GSXR family bolt right up. all said and done i think you could have a better quality, fuel injected, great handling bike for same if not less money than that bike.
I think whats going to turn off a lot of potential buyers is the carburators...They are the thing of the past and nobody wants to fiddle with em anymore...god knows i dont! The days of hooking a laptop to a bike for tuning are here to stay...
Other thinking is....a brand new SV650S will come with ABS, a set of lower fairings will make it good looking, its Fuel injected, and most if not all suspension pieces from the GSXR family bolt right up. all said and done i think you could have a better quality, fuel injected, great handling bike for same if not less money than that bike.
Last edited by Red_Liner740; 07-23-2010 at 10:45 PM.
07-24-2010 | 06:03 AM
#75
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Oh god! I forgot that can of worms!
From the consumer's perspective, I don't know if ccs are as important as weight and performance. We're seeing a lot of manufacturers hedging their bets with 800ccs, 675 ccs, 900ccs...
I was this close --><-- to getting a SV once. I bought some of the GSXR stuff in preparation for getting one, but ended up with something totally unrelated... The GB500, maybe? I imagine those SVs with the USD forks and GSXR shock are pretty amazing. In stock shape -- with pretty crappy forks, shocks and brakes -- the SVs I've ridden are still great little bikes.
You're spot on with the carbs.
From the consumer's perspective, I don't know if ccs are as important as weight and performance. We're seeing a lot of manufacturers hedging their bets with 800ccs, 675 ccs, 900ccs...
I was this close --><-- to getting a SV once. I bought some of the GSXR stuff in preparation for getting one, but ended up with something totally unrelated... The GB500, maybe? I imagine those SVs with the USD forks and GSXR shock are pretty amazing. In stock shape -- with pretty crappy forks, shocks and brakes -- the SVs I've ridden are still great little bikes.
You're spot on with the carbs.
07-26-2010 | 08:28 AM
#76
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From: Richmond, Virginia
True, but I rode and '08 a couple weeks ago. I have to say it turned like an ocean liner compared with my ZX636R streetfighter with wide bars. (Yes, economic necessity has me riding an I4 for now. Jeez, I miss riding the sound wave of a v-twin, but the 636 rocks in its own way.)
07-26-2010 | 11:36 AM
#77
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http://www.deeknow.com/dyno/index.ph...action=Dyno+It
If like me and 99.9% of street riders you spend most of you time at or below 9000 rpm....
With an Ohlins shock and a VR1 frame, Fischer owns the "top shelf" honors, not the CBR.
If like me and 99.9% of street riders you spend most of you time at or below 9000 rpm....
With an Ohlins shock and a VR1 frame, Fischer owns the "top shelf" honors, not the CBR.
07-26-2010 | 11:37 AM
#78
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Wow, now there is proof in those numbers. At 8800 RPM the SV and CBR are making identical power. I'd venture a guess that the SV has nicer torque numbers the entire way.
Looking at the supplied numbers for our bike, it looks like anything over 9K is a exercise in wasted energy.
Looking at the supplied numbers for our bike, it looks like anything over 9K is a exercise in wasted energy.
Last edited by Erik S.; 07-26-2010 at 11:39 AM.
07-26-2010 | 12:46 PM
#79
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From: Colorado
Yes, but is it actually usable on the road? Nope, not any better than the Fischer... Does it give you any sense of that you are using anything close to it's capacity? Nope... Still plenty left even on track unless you are a really, really good rider... Does it let you develop your skills without having to not let the bike "override" your own capacity... Nope...
I can go on for a while...
The basic difference here... You aren't the target group for the Fischer... I would probably be... So this discussion will keep going in circles...
I can go on for a while...
The basic difference here... You aren't the target group for the Fischer... I would probably be... So this discussion will keep going in circles...
07-26-2010 | 01:08 PM
#80
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I live in a place with equal access to twisties and long open roads a like. That power is definitely usable on the road. No one said anything about legally. My friend shows me the usable power on his CBR1000 all the time. It usually looks like riding on one wheel in 4th. The rest of the time it looks like a taillight. And in my area you can get some decent 1ks for under $8k. Sport bikes are not about having enough. A Honda Shadow has enough. That isn't why I bought a sportbike and I know its the same for most sportbike riders. And enough power is a relative term. Do you want enough power to cruise the speed limit on the highway? Or do you want enough power to embarass a $500,000 supercar? Because if your definition of enough is more related to the second question. Then I'm afraid that the Fischer just doesn't have enough.
The Fischer has enough HP that I feel fairly confident that I could either post similar laptimes around whatever racetrack you choose as you would on the VTR or your friend would on the CBR, or outright embarass you... On the dragstrip the CBR would win hands down...
Now take that very same supercar to that track and it will probably embarass the CBR, the VTR and Fischer collectively... Why? Well, it has four wheels and doesn't lean over in the corners...
On a straight piece of highway the CBR will embarass most cars, including supercars... The VTR will do that to a handfull of sportscars, not many supercars... The Fischer will probably fare about level with the VTR... Leapfrog them down low and get beaten up top... It's physics...
And since you are saying the CBR mostly looks like taillights to you, well... You have a go on the CBR and I'll race you on my VTR and you'll get the chance to check out the VTR taillight for a change... Most of the CBR owners around here are getting a bit fed up looking at my taillight, since they have problems keeping ahead of me...
And if you compare things the way you do, looking at numbers, they should be miles ahead of me... They have 160+ peak and I have 110+ peak... The difference is ~50 hp... The difference between the Fisher and a CBR600 is ~25 hp... (And for reference I do actually have 110+ hp at the rearwheel, not like a stock VTR)
07-26-2010 | 02:04 PM
#81
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From: Colorado
I should have been more specific when I said embarass a supercar. I meant in a strait line. And the only point you just made is that the rider makes the most difference, which is something that no one will argue with. Now my point is that you can get way more bike for $8k. Now whether the rider can use all of that bike is a different arguement. But no matter what you perfer you will get a better bike with a CBR1000RR than you will a Fischer. If its a beginner bike then yes it is a better beginner bike that a CBR1000RR. But if you are marketing it as a Bargain Sportbike then im afraid I dont see the bargain.
07-26-2010 | 02:05 PM
#82
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I had a TRX850 for a while. It only made 80hp, yet on the road I had no trouble keeping up with my friends on their 1000 Blades, Ducati's or what ever. On the track it was down on speed, but only in the straight. In the bends it was very competitive, mainly because what little power it had was easily accessible.
I did a track day a couple of years ago with my 1978 Ducati Bevelhead. It only made close to 70hp. It was just a little slower than the race 400's down the straight. It had its typical period skinny tyres on (BT45's). I still managed to round up a number of modern sports bikes. Numbers can be a useful tool, but they don't tell the definitive story.
I did a track day a couple of years ago with my 1978 Ducati Bevelhead. It only made close to 70hp. It was just a little slower than the race 400's down the straight. It had its typical period skinny tyres on (BT45's). I still managed to round up a number of modern sports bikes. Numbers can be a useful tool, but they don't tell the definitive story.
07-26-2010 | 02:19 PM
#83
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
I should have been more specific when I said embarass a supercar. I meant in a strait line. And the only point you just made is that the rider makes the most difference, which is something that no one will argue with. Now my point is that you can get way more bike for $8k. Now whether the rider can use all of that bike is a different arguement. But no matter what you perfer you will get a better bike with a CBR1000RR than you will a Fischer. If its a beginner bike then yes it is a better beginner bike that a CBR1000RR. But if you are marketing it as a Bargain Sportbike then im afraid I dont see the bargain.
07-26-2010 | 02:50 PM
#86
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Here is a hypothetical situation:
One day Tweety woke up and built a cloning machine. With this machine Tweety was able to make an exact copy of himself. A couple weeks later the original Tweety decided he was going to take his brand new Fischer to a local track that oddly had an equal number of tight turns and strait aways. He hops on his shiny new yellow machine. He is so excited to try out his new bike when Tweety Mark II pulls up next to him on a gently used Fireblade. Now we have Tweety vs Tweety. Nimble 650 vs powerful Liter bike. Who will win?
One day Tweety woke up and built a cloning machine. With this machine Tweety was able to make an exact copy of himself. A couple weeks later the original Tweety decided he was going to take his brand new Fischer to a local track that oddly had an equal number of tight turns and strait aways. He hops on his shiny new yellow machine. He is so excited to try out his new bike when Tweety Mark II pulls up next to him on a gently used Fireblade. Now we have Tweety vs Tweety. Nimble 650 vs powerful Liter bike. Who will win?
07-26-2010 | 03:20 PM
#88
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
Here is a hypothetical situation:
One day Tweety woke up and built a cloning machine. With this machine Tweety was able to make an exact copy of himself. A couple weeks later the original Tweety decided he was going to take his brand new Fischer to a local track that oddly had an equal number of tight turns and strait aways. He hops on his shiny new yellow machine. He is so excited to try out his new bike when Tweety Mark II pulls up next to him on a gently used Fireblade. Now we have Tweety vs Tweety. Nimble 650 vs powerful Liter bike. Who will win?
One day Tweety woke up and built a cloning machine. With this machine Tweety was able to make an exact copy of himself. A couple weeks later the original Tweety decided he was going to take his brand new Fischer to a local track that oddly had an equal number of tight turns and strait aways. He hops on his shiny new yellow machine. He is so excited to try out his new bike when Tweety Mark II pulls up next to him on a gently used Fireblade. Now we have Tweety vs Tweety. Nimble 650 vs powerful Liter bike. Who will win?
But have look here http://www.fzracing.se/Default.aspx?navid=125&pgnbr=1
It's entirely in Swedish, but the numbers and images are universal... It's the racetracks available in Sweden, missing is only Gotland Ring...
On all of them except Mantorp Park and Anderstorp I can post better laptimes using a SV650 than on a CBR954, both bikes set up for racing... Unfortunately I have no comparasion with a CBR1000RR for you... And on all of the tracks I beat the SV laptimes with the VTR, again both bikes being bested by the CBR in the two above mentioned tracks... The reason is simple... They both have the two without comparasion longest straights of all the tracks...
My "hometrack" Sturup Raceway, well... The CBR didn't like that at all... Barely gets into 3'rd gear... The SV is right at home... The VTR is better of than the CBR though, but the braking zone at the end of the straight comes up scary fast once you figure out how to punch it out of the corner...
The second closest track is Ring Knutstorp... Here the SV runs out of puff about halfway up the straight and the CBR can hold about level over the entire track, the corners are more sweeping... The VTR beats both quite handily since every corner exit is an opportunity to pass for the VTR, just square of the corner and shoot past them out of the corner... Corner entries are about level, atleast with my VTR... The CBR does it's passing at the end of the straight... So 1 passing move vs a handfull... VTR wins...
Last edited by Tweety; 07-26-2010 at 03:24 PM.
07-26-2010 | 04:52 PM
#89
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From: Colorado
It is all what about what is important to you. You race a lot and you know what you like. For me power to weight is the most important thing. I have big wide open roads here where there are a lot of opportunities to go ***** out. In that situation the CBR is a better sport bike. I will give it to you, if tight race tracks are what you do the smaller lighter bike is the better sportbike. With the Fischer though you are assuming that it is infact as good as an SV. And just by looking at its specs you would never know for sure. Now to prove my point it was my mistake by comparing the wrong bike. How about a slightly used 2007 GSXR 750? Under $8k from what i've seen. Now the gixxer (according to the manufacturer weighs about 20 pounds lighter than the Fischer and has power between a 600 and 1000. Has feather light steering and rock solid suspension. No one in there right mind would take a Fischer over the 750. The Fischer would never keep up with a bike like that.
07-26-2010 | 05:00 PM
#90
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Why would anyone by a 1000rr sportbike type to show how awesome they are at going in a straight line. No one (important) gives a crap about that. 1/4mile times on a sportbike are akin to its offroad ability. Why not buy a vrod? a busa? etc etc. I guess I could give a crap if my bike tops out at 145, 186, or 300 mph. It really doesn't matter.
