A VTR1000F... With Fuel Injection?!?!?
12-13-2007 | 04:02 AM
#31
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
That's not completely correct. 
Forks tubes are 43 mm.
Brakes have the CBS system, so caliper are really different and left fork slider have a specific support for this system
Front wheel is a 19"
Rear wheel is 17" but it's narrower (4")
For Inderocker:
throttle bodies are 42 mm, so I think that it's impossible to use them on an SH without a consistent loss of power.
Varadero engine is rated for 95 hp Vs 110 of VTR.
Bye
Forks tubes are 43 mm.
Brakes have the CBS system, so caliper are really different and left fork slider have a specific support for this system
Front wheel is a 19"
Rear wheel is 17" but it's narrower (4")
For Inderocker:
throttle bodies are 42 mm, so I think that it's impossible to use them on an SH without a consistent loss of power.
Varadero engine is rated for 95 hp Vs 110 of VTR.
Bye
Tho it's true that the throttle bodies are 42 mm, it's also been argued rather extensibly by engine gurues that the 50 mm carbs on the VTR is either to big or atleast on the large side of right size... So I really think it's possible for this to work...
Oh and NO it's not like "almost like the RC-51"... infact in Europe the VTR and Varadero up to 2003, share the service manual, since the engine besides the cams and such parts are IDENTICAL... (It became Fi 2004)
12-13-2007 | 07:18 AM
#33
Addicted to VTR!
Squid
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 77
From: Mantignana (Italy)
Tho it's true that the throttle bodies are 42 mm, it's also been argued rather extensibly by engine gurues that the 50 mm carbs on the VTR is either to big or atleast on the large side of right size...
So I really think it's possible for this to work...
in Europe the VTR and Varadero up to 2003, share the service manual, since the engine besides the cams and such parts are IDENTICAL... (It became Fi 2004)
Bye
12-13-2007 | 08:02 AM
#34
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 387
So it sounds like swapping ECU, all electronics, throttle bodies, tanks or mount pump somewhere, remap injectors and timing for different cams and months of fiddling. Hmmmm....if someone else does it and makes a swap kit, they might have takers.....ME? no thanks
Or?????? installing Varadero engine with VTR trans and cams (and pump and electronics)....now THAT sounds easy!!!!!!!!!!
Or?????? installing Varadero engine with VTR trans and cams (and pump and electronics)....now THAT sounds easy!!!!!!!!!!
12-13-2007 | 08:33 AM
#35
Schnitzel
Squid
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 53
From: Canton, Georgia, USA
Tweety, many thanks if you can do that for me.
As for my project, i've been looking at all large displacement twins from Ducati, Suzuki (TL1000R, DL1000 VStrom, SV1000), Honda (RC51, Varadero), and so on. I've also been looking at a few of the inline bikes as well, like the Suzuki Hayabusa and GSXR1000, Yamaha R1 and FJ1300, Kawasaki ZX10, ZX12 and ZX14 (Concours), and many others.
As far as the implementation, i'm going full standalone to handle both fuel and spark. I'm still weighing all my options in the "brain-box" area, but i've been leaning towards the MegaSquirt. There have been plenty of people who have done Carb to FI conversions on bikes using the MegaSquirt, so I know the knowledge base is there.
I also have a distinctive advantage that most do not have... unlimited access to a dyno.
Ryan B.
As for my project, i've been looking at all large displacement twins from Ducati, Suzuki (TL1000R, DL1000 VStrom, SV1000), Honda (RC51, Varadero), and so on. I've also been looking at a few of the inline bikes as well, like the Suzuki Hayabusa and GSXR1000, Yamaha R1 and FJ1300, Kawasaki ZX10, ZX12 and ZX14 (Concours), and many others.
As far as the implementation, i'm going full standalone to handle both fuel and spark. I'm still weighing all my options in the "brain-box" area, but i've been leaning towards the MegaSquirt. There have been plenty of people who have done Carb to FI conversions on bikes using the MegaSquirt, so I know the knowledge base is there.
I also have a distinctive advantage that most do not have... unlimited access to a dyno.
Ryan B.
12-13-2007 | 08:41 AM
#36
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 367
From: Independence, Oregon
US
Probably won't pass CA emission standards
12-13-2007 | 10:33 AM
#37
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I ended up being to darned busy at work today... But I AM going down there for my own stuff tomorrow (hopefully) so I'll definetly ask...
If it's feasible I can even see if it's possible to get the parts as used... But that's a later project...
If it's feasible I can even see if it's possible to get the parts as used... But that's a later project...
12-13-2007 | 10:41 AM
#39
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
VTR's carbs are 48 mm!
I agree, it will work. But I don't know if it's worth!
Carburretors Varaderos have only 5 gear.
Bye
Carburretors Varaderos have only 5 gear.
Bye
12-13-2007 | 03:09 PM
#40
Schnitzel
Squid
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 53
From: Canton, Georgia, USA
Tweety, I do have my eye on the micro, but i'm still mulling over everything on that end. When i'm ready to buy, i'm going to be speaking to the people over at DIYAutoTune.com. It just so happens they are local (somewhat) to where I live.
The way I figure it, the more I think it all over the less likely i'll make either an expensive mistake and I should have solutions for most all the little problems i'll encounter.
On the issue of throttle size, i've read all kinds of information over the last few weeks about FI conversions. From what I have gathered, I should be looking for something between stock carb diameter and no less than 42mm. Too big and the low end will suffer (not to mention a lack of idle ability), too small and i'm just working against my self in the search for power/economy. I may find that my assumptions are wrong and that is where i'm sure i'll probably be purchasing more than once.
Ryan B.
The way I figure it, the more I think it all over the less likely i'll make either an expensive mistake and I should have solutions for most all the little problems i'll encounter.
On the issue of throttle size, i've read all kinds of information over the last few weeks about FI conversions. From what I have gathered, I should be looking for something between stock carb diameter and no less than 42mm. Too big and the low end will suffer (not to mention a lack of idle ability), too small and i'm just working against my self in the search for power/economy. I may find that my assumptions are wrong and that is where i'm sure i'll probably be purchasing more than once.
Ryan B.
12-13-2007 | 03:24 PM
#41
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Tweety, I do have my eye on the micro, but i'm still mulling over everything on that end. When i'm ready to buy, i'm going to be speaking to the people over at DIYAutoTune.com. It just so happens they are local (somewhat) to where I live.
The way I figure it, the more I think it all over the less likely i'll make either an expensive mistake and I should have solutions for most all the little problems i'll encounter.
On the issue of throttle size, i've read all kinds of information over the last few weeks about FI conversions. From what I have gathered, I should be looking for something between stock carb diameter and no less than 42mm. Too big and the low end will suffer (not to mention a lack of idle ability), too small and i'm just working against my self in the search for power/economy. I may find that my assumptions are wrong and that is where i'm sure i'll probably be purchasing more than once.
Ryan B.
The way I figure it, the more I think it all over the less likely i'll make either an expensive mistake and I should have solutions for most all the little problems i'll encounter.
On the issue of throttle size, i've read all kinds of information over the last few weeks about FI conversions. From what I have gathered, I should be looking for something between stock carb diameter and no less than 42mm. Too big and the low end will suffer (not to mention a lack of idle ability), too small and i'm just working against my self in the search for power/economy. I may find that my assumptions are wrong and that is where i'm sure i'll probably be purchasing more than once.
Ryan B.
Uhmhum... usually whe I think I have covered every angle... I go back and re-do it atleast twice... saves me a lot of grief...
12-13-2007 | 04:24 PM
#42
Schnitzel
Squid
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 53
From: Canton, Georgia, USA
Yeah, that is why I said no smaller than 42mm. 
I just had the thought, if I went too big on the throttle body, I could always have venturis machined to bring up the air velocity. Which shouldn't, if at all, damage the top end power.
Ryan B.
I just had the thought, if I went too big on the throttle body, I could always have venturis machined to bring up the air velocity. Which shouldn't, if at all, damage the top end power.
Ryan B.
12-13-2007 | 05:28 PM
#45
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 203
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
So it sounds like swapping ECU, all electronics, throttle bodies, tanks or mount pump somewhere, remap injectors and timing for different cams and months of fiddling. Hmmmm....if someone else does it and makes a swap kit, they might have takers.....ME? no thanks
Or?????? installing Varadero engine with VTR trans and cams (and pump and electronics)....now THAT sounds easy!!!!!!!!!!
Or?????? installing Varadero engine with VTR trans and cams (and pump and electronics)....now THAT sounds easy!!!!!!!!!!
But if anyone out there does decide to give this a try i'm sure you'll know the whole VTR community is watching with wide eyes.
12-14-2007 | 03:34 PM
#48
Addicted to VTR!
Squid
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 77
From: Mantignana (Italy)
If you don't trust
. just have a look at this http://www.hondaitalia.com/moto/prod...dello=XL1000VX"Sospensione anteriore" stands for "front suspension"!
Doh... sorry... my bad... However it's kinda the norm for a Fi bike to have slightly smaller throttle bodies than a carbed equivalent... so 48 to 42 should be fine...
Ciao
12-15-2007 | 12:08 AM
#49
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Trust me!
If you don't trust . just have a look at this http://www.hondaitalia.com/moto/prod...dello=XL1000VX
"Sospensione anteriore" stands for "front suspension"!
If you don't trust
. just have a look at this http://www.hondaitalia.com/moto/prod...dello=XL1000VX"Sospensione anteriore" stands for "front suspension"!
Varadero's carbs are 42 mm, exactly like throttle bodies!
Ciao
12-27-2007 | 03:57 PM
#50
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Would anyone across the pond mind getting me a price on the throttle body assembly. I'm sure the cost is outrageous compared to other solutions i've looked into. I can't seem to find a price online.
I've been researching, for the last few weeks, as many possibilities to get fuel injection on a SuperHawk and claiming all oem parts is an interesting idea. Especially if it would be closer to a bolt on then anything else.
Pretty Pretty Please!
-Ryan B.
I've been researching, for the last few weeks, as many possibilities to get fuel injection on a SuperHawk and claiming all oem parts is an interesting idea. Especially if it would be closer to a bolt on then anything else.
Pretty Pretty Please!
-Ryan B.
Ok I finally had the time to go get my bits and bolts...
And I managed to remember to check atleast some prices... The large parts, ie the throttle body assembly is some 650$, and add about 150$ in misc parts to get it complete (ie all the main parts me and the mechanic could list out of memory...), then add about a 110$ for the wiring loom...
So i'd say you are looking at around 1000$ over the counter, plus shipping and that stuff... (customs are fun, fun, fun...)
12-27-2007 | 04:08 PM
#51
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Oh btw... This is going to sound like the worst lie in history... but it's actually true... they had a VTR with the engine apart in the shop ... AND a Varadero apart to shim the valves... It took a few minutes of checking prices and explaining what the idea was and the guy was pulling me into the shop... then I just stood there looking while 3 mechanics was holding various engine parts up to each other discussing their possible fit...
The general consensus amongst them was that it would be a bit tight on time to get it bolted together and dyno'ed before the owners of the respective vehicles might start to ask questions (they did consider it... and it wasn't even my idea...) but they all seemed to think it could be done with a minimum of modifications... basicly just pick and choose parts from Honda and it would fit...
The general consensus amongst them was that it would be a bit tight on time to get it bolted together and dyno'ed before the owners of the respective vehicles might start to ask questions (they did consider it...
and it wasn't even my idea...) but they all seemed to think it could be done with a minimum of modifications... basicly just pick and choose parts from Honda and it would fit...
Last edited by Tweety; 12-27-2007 at 04:10 PM.
12-27-2007 | 06:12 PM
#53
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
On what? My budget for crazy *** ideas is spent on the new fork...
So i won't be doing any more shopping anytime soon unless I wanna be single...
Altough it goes on my x-mas list for next year... that for damned sure...
So i won't be doing any more shopping anytime soon unless I wanna be single...
Altough it goes on my x-mas list for next year... that for damned sure...
01-20-2008 | 04:22 AM
#55
Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 45
From: Newcastle, Australia
You could run efi if needed on the VTR. I picked up more hp going leaner than standard in the main jet and fitting richer needles. My A/F ratio is much better than stock hence I get more hp and economy. I use LM wideband to measure A/F.
EFI conversion is on my list of plans. I will be using the standard carbs and TPS. I will gut the carbs and just retain the butterflys and throttle linkages to use as throttle bodies., then mount two injectors above the throttle plates (top feed). This is very effective. A efi pump will mount below the tank easily.
Mapping with ignition and fuel will unleash more response and more hp and precise afr's. You could run it in closed loop on the highway and get better economy too.
Another idea would be to build a plenum box to replace the factory one and plumb a turbocharger up to it!
The efi conversion could be made to be very difficult, but using some thought and factory bits it could also be simple.
Cheers
Joel
EFI conversion is on my list of plans. I will be using the standard carbs and TPS. I will gut the carbs and just retain the butterflys and throttle linkages to use as throttle bodies., then mount two injectors above the throttle plates (top feed). This is very effective. A efi pump will mount below the tank easily.
Mapping with ignition and fuel will unleash more response and more hp and precise afr's. You could run it in closed loop on the highway and get better economy too.
Another idea would be to build a plenum box to replace the factory one and plumb a turbocharger up to it!
The efi conversion could be made to be very difficult, but using some thought and factory bits it could also be simple.
Cheers
Joel
01-22-2008 | 07:52 PM
#56
Senior Member
Back Marker
Back Marker
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 229
From: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
VTR1000 and XL1000V
OK, folks, I have a 2006 VTR and a 2007 Varadero, so I have made the comparison.
1. Mechanically, very, very similar. The cams are different, the VTR's ones being more "sporty", as you would expect. The overall gearing feels near identical.
2. The EFI bike is a little more fuel efficient - with the 48mm carbs, the bulky Vardero would be a monster fuel consumer.
3. I have heard of VTR motors being installed in Varas in Europe, with the EFI being retained.
4. In summary, should be a physically easy job to fit the EFI to the VTR, but for making space for the extra equipment. Setting the EFI would be relatively easy if you also fit a Power Commander.
I would have to ask, "Why?" But then, I am confused by people who want such items as dry clutches on their road bikes, too.
I have my V-twin Hondas purely so that I have fun by not going too fast on the road. I go racing on my race bikes, on racetracks...
1. Mechanically, very, very similar. The cams are different, the VTR's ones being more "sporty", as you would expect. The overall gearing feels near identical.
2. The EFI bike is a little more fuel efficient - with the 48mm carbs, the bulky Vardero would be a monster fuel consumer.
3. I have heard of VTR motors being installed in Varas in Europe, with the EFI being retained.
4. In summary, should be a physically easy job to fit the EFI to the VTR, but for making space for the extra equipment. Setting the EFI would be relatively easy if you also fit a Power Commander.
I would have to ask, "Why?" But then, I am confused by people who want such items as dry clutches on their road bikes, too.
I have my V-twin Hondas purely so that I have fun by not going too fast on the road. I go racing on my race bikes, on racetracks...
02-26-2008 | 02:58 PM
#57
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 8
From: colorado springs
Has any progress been made on this project? I am hoping to do this to my 03, I had thought about trying to use the RC51 parts. I am waiting to hear how your project is working have anyone thought about converting over to E85 since we are talking about a very significant changes to the fuel delivery system.
