mikstr

The sad part is that most people spend their lives sitting on fences, and those of us who want this to go ahead, have no desire to sit around any longer arguing the possible merits of a part which, as Shayne has said, has proven itself. Since the part has been analyzed and a print created using the latest in computer technology, and we aim to rely on a reliable supplier using CNC techology to build it, there is no reason to expect that the end product will not deliver the goods. If, however, some of you are not comfortable with that, again, no one is forcing anyone to buy. IN the end, while I can understand everyone`s concerns (I have some too), sometimes you have to take the plunge. Ten of us are.

In so far as getting additional units built afterward for a cheaper price, while some may think this childish, I have some real issues with other coming on board afterwards and cashing in on our efforts. After all, we are the ones who will have take the chance and paid the big(ger) bucks (we'll be footing the bill for the set-up and programming fees) and to get this thing off the ground. Our goal is to get a part for ourselves, not to pave the road for the fence sitters to get them more cheaply. In a perfect world, everyone would jump in early and we could all share in the savings. To profit from our investment after the fact is, in my mind, simply wrong (and stinks of opportunism). I am sure some will disagree with me and you are free to do so. If the tables were turned, however, how you would you feel?

Finally, it was my hope that we could get a sufficient number made to offer up a free set to Rick and Hak for their generosity and help in this project, something that we will not be able to do given the dismal numbers involved (the cost would be borne out unfairly by a select few in such a case; especially relelvant in light of the previous point).

Flame away if you want, that is my opinion.

JamieDaugherty

You know, I've been wanting an excuse to dyno my bike anyway.

FL02SupaHawk996

I may get a chance to get another dyno run in before the STG 1 motor goes in...

I've got the baseline done with stock air box, so the new run would be to show the difference that the long stacks make paired with a K&N filter with same jetting...

mikstr

Don`t forget that these are said to require substantialy leaner jetting (due to the dramatically greater volume of air they flow). Shayne, for example, who is running a full Moriwaki exhaust, slightly opened up airbox, 10:1 pistons and K&N filter is running 170 mains! The full race engine built by the chap who designed these was running 182 mains. So, in order to get a true picture of the benefits, a re-jet is in order.

FL02SupaHawk996

I agree Mikstr, However, I wont be rejetting till I have the STG 1 motor in, so maybe Jamie can help...RC

mikstr

I was only mentioning it as I expect the naysayers to chime in with a chorus of "I told you so's" if the results are not up to par, and a run without proper jetting would not do justice to the true benefit realized from these parts. In so far as your specific case is concerned, why spend money doing and re-doing when you'll soon have the new engine to set-up.

cheers

FL02SupaHawk996

all true

Stevebis1

Mikstr - I am trying to understand the requirement for smaller mains with these. If you flow more air you need more gas to maintain the stoichometric ratio...

Is it that the because the air velocity is increased, the relative pressure is lower, so you flow more gas through a given size orifice because of the greater pressure drop?

mikstr

I am not an engineer and am going on what the chap who built these said (and found from dyno tuning). The only explanation I can come up with is in line with your second point, that it allows more fuel to be pulled through the jet (for a given size), meaning that a 170 jet can flow enough fuel to properly feed the engine.

I have ordered a selection of leaner jets (168s to 175s) to use when the time come s to dyno tune the bike.

Tweety

Well, then I can go sit in the kiddie corner alongside you... If someone some that was offered to be part of a larger group purchase that would reduce cost for all of us wants to come in cheap later, to me that's plain wrong... To my reasoning it should be the other way aruond, we get it cheaper for taking the risk... And yes, I'd still think that if I where in the second group (for some reason missing the first...)

I can to a certain extent understand concerns about the result... But this is a digitally produced CNC copy of a proven part, with sound theoretical background so the worst case scenario is that you get only a very small positive effect...

Also dynosheets are in my opinion best used as toilet paper... They prove just about nothing... They are only relevant in reference to the same machine and dyno bench... Use a dyno to what it's meant for... Setting up a bike, comparing different jets and so on...

hawxter996

since i am not independantly wealthy, i shop at walmart, always looking for the lowest price!

mikstr

That makes two of us. I don't drink, don't smoke. My VTR is my way of treating myself.

trinc

imo. there are a LOT of products that have sound, and some not so sound, theoretical engineering / science that have a ton of quotes from those that rav about said product but they lack 1 piece of info... dyno chart.

sorry tweety you are wrong. same bike, same dyno, replace part & retest is the best test you can do.

some things are done, like this, as a fun project to get a little more performance & if it's proven sell a few to cover your cost ( and part ) and maybe even make a couple of bucks.

with a dyno test in hand make more & sell them... nobody said you had to lower the price or couldn't add a few bucks to each set & repay the people in the first group buy.

tim

Tweety

Nah, I'm not wrong and neither are you... test-replace-test, that is the purpose of a dyno... The point I was trying to convey is that it rarely carries over to another bike... The parts are the same, the setup varies...

Well, I like that scheme... But it kind of implies one person doing it as a full-on project, preferably having the CNC shop close by... Now it's more of a group effort... And that was the very reason I was hoping more people would be willing to step in and we would all gain from it (and I believe that's the same as what mikstr was hoping, altough I can only speak for myself...)

lazn

Oh please, this is how it always goes.. I paid through the nose for a DTS surround sound system (way more than you are for these stacks) back in the mid 90's.. Now you can't get a cheapo without it. But I wanted one at the time and it mattered to me at the time. So I paid for it, and now everyone else benefited from me being an early adopter..

It'd be like asking everyone to pay the million dollar price for the first flying car because it wouldn't be fair to the person buying the expensive one when Hyundai releases a cheaper one in 10 years.

Am I interested in a proven part for a decent price? Yes.. Am I ready to shell out more for an experiment.. Not in this case, perhaps in another.

JamieDaugherty

In Greg's defense, that's exactly what he was suggesting. Take a bike to a dyno shop, run a baseline then a run with the new stacks. This will show a back-to-back, apples-to-apples comparison of the results. It would also show what effect the stacks have on jetting, if any. All of these thing are nice to know.



Well..... that's how the world turns unfortunately. People who want to stay on the cusp of technology have to pay the price. Once something is proven the ability to produce it more cheaply ramps up. The folks who wait it out pay less but get the "good stuff" later.

mikstr

This was never meant to degenerate into a pissing contest. What it was meant to do, was create a way for members of this forum to participate in a group buy that would allow us to benefit from a cheap price for a proven (read Shayne's info) performance part. Instead, it turned into a schoolyard with many sceptics and cynics offering their (unwanted) opinions. Those of us who are really intersted are stepping up the plate and seizing the opportunity that is before us (in no small thanks to Rick adn Hak). To those who want to play wait and see, well, do so, we'll be out enjoying our new bits while you folks are debating and rallying peole to your effort.

I am always more than willing to help others. However, the helping stops when I feel I am being taken advantage of. Late joiners, in this case, are doing just that IMO. You likely don't feel this way, and that is your right. However, myself and most of the others in our buying group are of the same opinion as I am. So, if you want some, be prepared to do the legwork to find people to build it, then fork out and pay your own set-up fees, just as we did. Oh, and good luck rounding up enough people to get it going....

hawxter996

this is why i dont do business with family!

mikstr,do what you need,dont worry about anyone else.

get what you need done and you will have something not everyone else has.

that is what im doing ,hence my build"modding madness"

mikstr

thanks Hawxter

Hawkrider

Gentlemen,

I've been in, out, and around the S'Hawk for 11 years now. I've personally done experimental dyno runs concerning carb heating and PAIR on my own dime for the benefit of the community. I've honed my suspension skills by disassembling and reassembling stock forks over and over, and as a result offer a service to the community at a reasonable price to make OUR BIKES better. Not me. Not a group of 10. I am an enthusiast who likes to give back to the community, and in the end it comes back to me....really.

As the administrator of this site I like to continue that same mentality, that the extremely talented, diverse group we call SuperHawkForum provide the same. In my previous posts I suggested a way to make the product proven, less expensive, and a known quantity for all 2300 (!!) active (in the last year) members of this forum. I applaud your ownership of this project. I would feel the same pride, however the way I would offer the product to this forum would be different. My suggestion is only that- a suggestion. I will not shut you down because I do my best to promote this type of development of aftermarket parts for our bike. There are less and less companies out there that provide much if anything for us anymore.

I will once again HIGHLY RECOMMEND a small batch of one or two sets be verified for fit and performance on a dynomometer, ultimately leading to much larger order in the end and lower prices for all. If you choose to believe that additional interest in the product after the fact is "cashing in on your efforts" then I sympathize and apologize to this forum for your attitude.

lazn

Thank you Greg and you too Mikstr, we are the only people left to continue working on our discontinued bike.

This forum is one of the best things about owning a SH, and I will leave out of this particular discussion so as to not push any feelings any further.

RK1

I made a lot of money today. I'm celebrating with a bottle of Maker's Mark. I hope I don't wake up tomorrow and regret what I've posted, but what the hell. Mikstr is putting this deal together and it's his to run any way he wants. No problem.

But I have to laugh at this notion that only the few, the proud, the courageous heroes with big ***** have the guts to go in on it.

I guess that would make me a pink pantie wearing half a homo 'cause I don't spend good money on stuff for my bike unless I've seen evidence I'll get my money's worth.

I'm perfectly fine with other folks doing whatever they want, no problem.

But take it or leave it, like it or lump it. Hawkrider has a good point.

The minute somebody produces a valid, believable dyno graph showing an 8%-10% boost in midrange H.P. with a reasonably priced part, the number of folks interested would increase by a factor of 10x or 20x.

yruyur

If we get the dyno results in showing a measurable increase and proven results I would be fine with purchasing the first large batch to resell to others both here and on ebay.

JamieDaugherty

And kudos to you for it. Your passion for this bike and it's owners really shows. I, for one, appreciate all that you have done and continue to do.

Rock on Greg. Rock on.

JamieDaugherty

Hello! I'm standing right here!

Hawkrider

Jamie, I'll throw you some kudos, bro! How many shifters you sold so far? I'll be the first to send $150 for the brake lever/shifter combo as soon as you get it worked out.

mikstr

Jamie's shifter is awesome, especially with a needle bearing

JamieDaugherty

Not that many, but I've not been pushing them. Once I get the brake lever finished I'll probably start throwing them on eBay probably.

mikstr

Check your e-mail gentlemen.

cheers
Micky

mikstr

Order has been placed, 12 sets will be built, all are spoken for. The job should be completed and the stacks ready to be mailed out (by yours truly) in about two weeks.

cheers