RC51 swingarm Mod.
10-08-2009 | 08:28 AM
#31
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
Yep... That's about how you want it to end up... And your way actually sounds easier than mine... calculator + lots of paper + headache... I hate calculus/geometry...
(Just a side note, remember that the shock fully compressed might not be the same without the spring as with it... )
(Just a side note, remember that the shock fully compressed might not be the same without the spring as with it... )
10-08-2009 | 10:32 AM
#34
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
That looks correct... But for sake of rigidity I'd make the block a bit bigger and space out the bolts connecting the pieces a bit more... Just leave a small gap at the lower link, then fill in the rest of the bottom left half...
12-22-2009 | 11:34 AM
#39
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From: NorthEast Connecticut
It's on the side burner for now, I'm on the mend from shoulder surgery for a torn rotor cuff so I'm concentrating on stuff I can handle one handed. I'll post up when I get back on this project, and start new threads for the stuff I'm able to get finished.
Have a Merry Xmas all.
Have a Merry Xmas all.
Last edited by stebbdt; 12-22-2009 at 11:45 AM.
01-31-2010 | 09:46 AM
#42
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From: Skurup, Sweden
I'll put up the measurements for the lower link here as Gaggenau asked for them... Free to use them as you like but all responsibilty if you end up in a ditch is your own..
I cut/welded on my swingarm as said, but it's possile to do without that... the lower image is ballpark of how I did that... Unfortunately it was made on a mate's bike and what templates there are he has... Mostly though it was made by sticking it on and checking where there was interference and grinding...
Same goes for the outer contour of the two templates, it's ballpark from my paper templates... Not the final piece, the upper part needs a bit of more dip in the middle not to hit the swingarm at certain parts of wheel travel... Measurements are mm and CC...
Note this is used with a height adjustable shock, so I belive if you haven't got that you will get a very high rear end, but with this I got close to stock leverage ratios on he swingarm and shock, with decent feel once road tested, so I'm happy...
Feel free to ask If you need any more info...
Edit: It's scanned at 600dpi so if you print it at that you can use it as a template for cutting the plates, otherwise go by the numbers...
I cut/welded on my swingarm as said, but it's possile to do without that... the lower image is ballpark of how I did that... Unfortunately it was made on a mate's bike and what templates there are he has... Mostly though it was made by sticking it on and checking where there was interference and grinding...
Same goes for the outer contour of the two templates, it's ballpark from my paper templates... Not the final piece, the upper part needs a bit of more dip in the middle not to hit the swingarm at certain parts of wheel travel... Measurements are mm and CC...
Note this is used with a height adjustable shock, so I belive if you haven't got that you will get a very high rear end, but with this I got close to stock leverage ratios on he swingarm and shock, with decent feel once road tested, so I'm happy...
Feel free to ask If you need any more info...
Edit: It's scanned at 600dpi so if you print it at that you can use it as a template for cutting the plates, otherwise go by the numbers...
Last edited by Tweety; 01-31-2010 at 09:48 AM.
02-03-2010 | 02:03 PM
#45
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From: Lake View Terrace, CA
I can ask around for you and see what I can find out.
Cheers,
Mike
02-03-2010 | 02:55 PM
#46
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Much appreciated Mike. Any help will be great.
02-11-2010 | 10:58 AM
#48
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
Either you modify/weld the swingarm and make two flat plates and drill the holes...
Or you keep the swingarm completely unmodified and look at the bottom drawing...
The right hand tip of the triangle is a solid alu block with the bearing from the RC51 part pressed in... Same function as the stock RC part... And also same width etc... The left hand part is two plates bolted to the block... And they are drilled and fits on the VTR's two mounting points... Same as when using two full plates...
It's a rough sketch... You need to bolt it to the dogbone and move that thr full range to make sure it doesn't hit somewhere... Same for the shock attachment...
02-11-2010 | 11:09 AM
#49
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Squid
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
From: Lowestoft UK
Im working on a set of drawings that will be saved as a PDF when im done. It will detail the dimentions for the link to be able to keep the RC swing arm stock (no cutting and welding)
Once its done and ill put it up for all to use/mdodify as they wish etc
Once its done and ill put it up for all to use/mdodify as they wish etc
02-11-2010 | 06:28 PM
#51
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From: NorthEast Connecticut
+1 Cool, and thanks Tweety for posting up what you found to work for you. Is this the set up you reccommend using an adjustable length shock with? (Shoulder's mending fine, thanks to all who've asked, it's a slow process though, should be good enough by riding season, I hope.)
02-12-2010 | 09:53 AM
#52
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From: Skurup, Sweden
Yeah... The above is used with about 5 mm shorter shock than stock and is equivalent to about 5 mm shim plate on the stock swingarm... A stock length shock will be like having a 15 mm rise in the rear... Combined with my 1000RR frontend being a bit lower than stock that was a bit on the nervous side...
Plus if you do this, putting the OEM shock in there is akin to painting a bike in orange with flowers... It works but it's still so very, very wrong...
Plus if you do this, putting the OEM shock in there is akin to painting a bike in orange with flowers... It works but it's still so very, very wrong...
02-12-2010 | 11:03 AM
#53
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Squid
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
From: Lowestoft UK
Ill hopefully be taking the swing arm off next weekend, so ill measure up the shock mount and engine tie bar dimentions, once that done the drawings should be done.
Thanks for that bit of info tweety, ill adjust my ohlins to make the rear drop, might have have made it turn a bit quicker, and a bit of a giggle to ride if i dont :S....lol
Thanks for that bit of info tweety, ill adjust my ohlins to make the rear drop, might have have made it turn a bit quicker, and a bit of a giggle to ride if i dont :S....lol
02-13-2010 | 12:27 PM
#54
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Squid
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 77
From: Lowestoft UK
The SP2 is also a 20 mm swingarm bolt as the VTR, which is a big plus... The SP1 is a 25 mm bolt according to the service manual... Not that it's a big problem... a small tube should fix that... But the freaking crossbar in front of the header on the SP1 is a bad thing...
If i remember you did a sp1 swap mod on a friends bike Tweety?
The crossbar that is on the SP1 arm fouls on the engine and on the exhaust, did you cut this off?
It dosent look to serve any purpose (structuraly) appart from sepperate the engine and shock/exhaust on the SP1 any way?
Also since the sp1 swing arm pivot is 25mm dia and the hawk is 20mm dia, would a 2.5mm collar surfice to be slid inside the sp1 pivot bearing with the hawk spindle passing through? Or would 20mm ID bearing NEED to be put in to replace the 25mm ones?
02-13-2010 | 03:55 PM
#55
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From: Skurup, Sweden
I just chopped of the crossbar... As you said it's not really load bearing...
As for the sleeve/bearing... I did both... I replaced the two bearings on the brake side, and put a sleeve inside of the needle bearing on the chain side as finding a suitable replacement was a PITA...
As for the sleeve/bearing... I did both... I replaced the two bearings on the brake side, and put a sleeve inside of the needle bearing on the chain side as finding a suitable replacement was a PITA...
02-13-2010 | 06:10 PM
#56
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Squid
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Lowestoft UK
I thought that was what you would have said about the cross bar, just wanted to make sure, did you cut it flush with the main part of the swing arm, if so was there any holes in the cast, or did you cut it with a little protruding slightly?
I have some stainless bar that ill make the collars out of(63.5mm dia a bit over kill but it was free), i think it will be easier making them rather than having to push out the bearings and put the new ones in, just got to make sure that they are well greased.....
I have some stainless bar that ill make the collars out of(63.5mm dia a bit over kill but it was free), i think it will be easier making them rather than having to push out the bearings and put the new ones in, just got to make sure that they are well greased.....
02-13-2010 | 06:37 PM
#57
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Joined: Jun 2004
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From: Thornwood, NY
If you cut it flush, there will be holes... as the casting is hollow for a bit into that "bar".... I got mine pretty flush, then filled them in with "lab metal" just to avoid anything getting in there...
As for the bearings.... just swap out the one side... they are fairly cheap, I got them from an online place... at least this way I felt the one side wasn't "rigged" in a manner that could cause issues later on. The place I got them from is below...
http://www.bearingsdirect.com/
When I was messing with this setup, I took an old shock, removed the spring and drilled a hole through the rebound screw to release the internal pressure... now when you mount it back in place you can easily swing the swingarm up/down and measure the travel at the wheel and shock to get it just right after adjusting with different linkages.
J.
As for the bearings.... just swap out the one side... they are fairly cheap, I got them from an online place... at least this way I felt the one side wasn't "rigged" in a manner that could cause issues later on. The place I got them from is below...
http://www.bearingsdirect.com/
When I was messing with this setup, I took an old shock, removed the spring and drilled a hole through the rebound screw to release the internal pressure... now when you mount it back in place you can easily swing the swingarm up/down and measure the travel at the wheel and shock to get it just right after adjusting with different linkages.
J.
02-14-2010 | 08:21 PM
#58
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 348
From: Melbourne Australia
Yeah... The above is used with about 5 mm shorter shock than stock and is equivalent to about 5 mm shim plate on the stock swingarm... A stock length shock will be like having a 15 mm rise in the rear... Combined with my 1000RR frontend being a bit lower than stock that was a bit on the nervous side...
Plus if you do this, putting the OEM shock in there is akin to painting a bike in orange with flowers... It works but it's still so very, very wrong...
Plus if you do this, putting the OEM shock in there is akin to painting a bike in orange with flowers... It works but it's still so very, very wrong...
F4i,600RR,1000RR,SP1,SP2 ???? (ALSO YEAR OF SHOCK) WOULD LIKE TO KNOW EASIEST BOLT ON SWAP !!I DONT WANT TO JACK THIS THREAD! I JUST THOUGHT IT WAS ALL RELAVENT & COULD HELP.
Last edited by hondavtr1000sp2; 02-14-2010 at 08:57 PM.
02-15-2010 | 11:45 AM
#59
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Actually I wouldn't consider this a thread jack in any way... The shock is part of the equation to make this work...
The SP1/SP2 and CBR600RR/1000RR shock is entirely the wrong spring stiffness and valving for the leverage, so unless you plan to rebuild it completely it's out, plus they have an external reservoar that won't fit and are all the wrong lenght....
The best bet is either an Öhlins/Fox/WP or similar aftermarket shock that is adjustable in lenght...
Or a F4i shock reworked (valving, spring) by Jamie Daugherty (forum member)... You can either have it lenghtened to fit the stock VTR (Which is to long for this application) He does this as part of the rebuild... Or have him make it a custom fixed lenght, calculate that first... Or like me, keep the lenght of it stock and make an adjustable mount... He will make an adjustable rebuild later on, but it's still in development AFAIK...
The SP1/SP2 and CBR600RR/1000RR shock is entirely the wrong spring stiffness and valving for the leverage, so unless you plan to rebuild it completely it's out, plus they have an external reservoar that won't fit and are all the wrong lenght....
The best bet is either an Öhlins/Fox/WP or similar aftermarket shock that is adjustable in lenght...
Or a F4i shock reworked (valving, spring) by Jamie Daugherty (forum member)... You can either have it lenghtened to fit the stock VTR (Which is to long for this application) He does this as part of the rebuild... Or have him make it a custom fixed lenght, calculate that first... Or like me, keep the lenght of it stock and make an adjustable mount... He will make an adjustable rebuild later on, but it's still in development AFAIK...
