HRC parts anywhere?????
01-22-2007 | 05:42 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17
HRC parts anywhere?????
sorry if this subject has been covered numerous times,
i was looking at getting some HRC parts for my firestorm / superhawk or whatever but cant find an HRC manual or part numbers or anything to tell me what is or was on offer.
any help would be great
thanks in advance
Karl
i was looking at getting some HRC parts for my firestorm / superhawk or whatever but cant find an HRC manual or part numbers or anything to tell me what is or was on offer.
any help would be great
thanks in advance
Karl
01-22-2007 | 01:32 PM
#5
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
There were some HRC parts. Oversized valves and a race ignition, for sure. I don't think any of it is still available. I know the ignitions are very hard to find (I already sold mine). Moriwaki was selling HRC valves, but sold out of them about a year and a half ago. Moriwaki cams are machined from Honda castings, but are not "HRC". I don't know if you can still get them either.
The RC51 stuff is getting hard to come by as well. We are all being forced back to the i4 world, at least in the realm of "affordable" bikes.
The RC51 stuff is getting hard to come by as well. We are all being forced back to the i4 world, at least in the realm of "affordable" bikes.
01-22-2007 | 01:37 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17
ah nuts. i heard that hrc and moriwaki did an igniter box.
is there anything which will give the same effect? like a wire splice for ignition mas for any given gear? or is this not a factor in the ignition?
im not too keen on the valves idea. cams on the other hand, yes please
is there anything which will give the same effect? like a wire splice for ignition mas for any given gear? or is this not a factor in the ignition?
im not too keen on the valves idea. cams on the other hand, yes please
01-22-2007 | 01:43 PM
#7
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SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
I believe the advance curve was based only on engine RPM and throttle position.
The valves were 1mm over on the intakes and 0.5mm over on the exhaust. Good for a few HP at high RPM. Moriwaki stage 1 cams fattened up the torque curve over a wide RPM range. Good stuff.
The valves were 1mm over on the intakes and 0.5mm over on the exhaust. Good for a few HP at high RPM. Moriwaki stage 1 cams fattened up the torque curve over a wide RPM range. Good stuff.
01-22-2007 | 03:19 PM
#9
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SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 963
From: Sunshine Coast, Australia
HRC made a jet kit also, which is waaaay different to the normal jet kits. I have a friend that has one, and he and I looked over it carefully prior to installation. You block off some air jets, and run about 145 & 150 mains in them. Seems weird, but produces good power. Not particularly good for the road he reckons, fuel economy dropped a LOT.
Good luck with trying to find one. I have never seen one for sale, only read about them.
As for performance parts for the VTR, contact Revolution Racing in the UK. Roger is THE MAN to talk to when it comes to VTR's and can supply everything you need, from street to full race stuff. He sells Moriwaki gear.
Good luck with trying to find one. I have never seen one for sale, only read about them.
As for performance parts for the VTR, contact Revolution Racing in the UK. Roger is THE MAN to talk to when it comes to VTR's and can supply everything you need, from street to full race stuff. He sells Moriwaki gear.
??:
01-22-2007 | 04:06 PM
#12
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SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,804
From: Atlanta, GA
HRC made a jet kit also, which is waaaay different to the normal jet kits. I have a friend that has one, and he and I looked over it carefully prior to installation. You block off some air jets, and run about 145 & 150 mains in them. Seems weird, but produces good power. Not particularly good for the road he reckons, fuel economy dropped a LOT.
Good luck with trying to find one. I have never seen one for sale, only read about them.
Good luck with trying to find one. I have never seen one for sale, only read about them.
01-24-2007 | 10:18 PM
#13
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SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 963
From: Sunshine Coast, Australia
That was a bargain for $50. A friend of mine bought one new and paid $400 AUD for it. No I am not kidding, they were very expensive. It was the only one in Australia according to Honda records.
01-25-2007 | 08:06 AM
#14
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Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 17
i was mainly after fueling or ignition set ups, like an airbox or jets/needles emulsion tubes etc or cdi or both. i am also wondering if there were an hrc manual, if it would specify using the underside of the tank as a plenumb thus removing the airbox, and maybe using 2 front cylinder velocity stacks??
01-26-2007 | 08:18 PM
#15
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SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
What exactly are you trying to accomplish? Obviously more power, but why are you only worried about fueling, ignition box and airbox upgrades? Those changes are usually only necessary if you've done other modifications to the engine. These modifications are things such as cams, compression, porting, etc. I'm kind of confused as to why you are trying to put so much effort into something that probably won't provide much gains.
01-27-2007 | 01:09 PM
#16
Member
Squid
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 30
From: Heysham UK
.....and his spot is only 10 minutes away from me
would defiantly talk to roger before buying any second hand jet kits or blocking any air jets up, he's a really helpful guy, did my speed trip when it decided to eat a valve
01-28-2007 | 10:53 PM
#17
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SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 963
From: Sunshine Coast, Australia
Ignition can be advanced on a standard engine, Factory Pro make a 4 degree advancer.
As for carbs and airbox, I have stuffed around with it a fair bit, and you will need access to a flow bench in order to modify your intake in my opinion. I have done mine, and picked up 5hp and more torque as well. Driveability suffered though due to the vacuum slides not being settled, due to airbox turbulence I suspect. So a flow bench is needed to find the answer to increasing the airflow, and keeping it smooth enough for a vacuum carb to operate properly.
In my case I backed up and went back to more of a standard intake set up. If I get keen again to get back into it, I will do so with a set of flat slide FCR's. I think that will allow me to do what I want.
If you are looking to get serious, this would be my suggestion before spending money on your standard carbs, and then finding out that things don't work properly.
As for carbs and airbox, I have stuffed around with it a fair bit, and you will need access to a flow bench in order to modify your intake in my opinion. I have done mine, and picked up 5hp and more torque as well. Driveability suffered though due to the vacuum slides not being settled, due to airbox turbulence I suspect. So a flow bench is needed to find the answer to increasing the airflow, and keeping it smooth enough for a vacuum carb to operate properly.
In my case I backed up and went back to more of a standard intake set up. If I get keen again to get back into it, I will do so with a set of flat slide FCR's. I think that will allow me to do what I want.
If you are looking to get serious, this would be my suggestion before spending money on your standard carbs, and then finding out that things don't work properly.
01-29-2007 | 03:38 PM
#18
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,804
From: Atlanta, GA
Ignition can be advanced on a standard engine, Factory Pro make a 4 degree advancer.
As for carbs and airbox, I have stuffed around with it a fair bit, and you will need access to a flow bench in order to modify your intake in my opinion. I have done mine, and picked up 5hp and more torque as well. Driveability suffered though due to the vacuum slides not being settled, due to airbox turbulence I suspect. So a flow bench is needed to find the answer to increasing the airflow, and keeping it smooth enough for a vacuum carb to operate properly.
In my case I backed up and went back to more of a standard intake set up. If I get keen again to get back into it, I will do so with a set of flat slide FCR's. I think that will allow me to do what I want.
If you are looking to get serious, this would be my suggestion before spending money on your standard carbs, and then finding out that things don't work properly.
As for carbs and airbox, I have stuffed around with it a fair bit, and you will need access to a flow bench in order to modify your intake in my opinion. I have done mine, and picked up 5hp and more torque as well. Driveability suffered though due to the vacuum slides not being settled, due to airbox turbulence I suspect. So a flow bench is needed to find the answer to increasing the airflow, and keeping it smooth enough for a vacuum carb to operate properly.
In my case I backed up and went back to more of a standard intake set up. If I get keen again to get back into it, I will do so with a set of flat slide FCR's. I think that will allow me to do what I want.
If you are looking to get serious, this would be my suggestion before spending money on your standard carbs, and then finding out that things don't work properly.
02-03-2007 | 01:42 AM
#21
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
I would disagree with that statement, and in now meeting Mr. Honda Austaralia and having a good chat with him, i can tell you that the majority of things things that you see on a stock bike are for:, ease of mass production, to make the bike user friendly, and to meet emissions and noise laws, there is alot of improvement to be had from anything, you just need to spend the time, effort and money in doing it, which not many people are prepared to do
So just because i came form the factory that why, doesn't mean it's the best thing for the bike
02-03-2007 | 06:48 AM
#22
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SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
I think you might have missed the point. I understand and completely agree with what you are saying. What I was trying to ask was why someone would focus on that aspect of the engine in an effort for more performance. The gains would be minimal (at best) on a stock engine. The money and effort would be better spent elsewhere.
02-03-2007 | 08:17 AM
#23
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Superstock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 312
I will say this about 'stock air boxes' and the like. I would point out that both sides of that discussion are on to something. While it is true that ease of assembly and material / manufacturing costs are always forcing trade-offs in design, it is not a simple matter to improve on some of those trade offs. Shocks are an example of a trade off that can be improved rather easily but the air box is one that is very difficult to improve on without a dyno at your disposal. The fact is that a lot of engineering goes into the stock air box trade-offs and all. Honda still has maximized the package given what they where working with. I can think of a number of examples of tuners who have found a performance improvement by modifying stock air boxes: Kaz Yosima, Pops Yoshimura, Dale Walker, Don Vesco, Mike Velasco, and Rob Muzzy. The reason I named these guys is because I have either talked to them (Don Vesco is the only one I have not spoken with) about this subject or read their words in print or both. I actually called Yoshimura in the late sixties and got Pops on the phone; we discussed jetting a CB350 Honda (he made a nice selection on hop up parts for the bike including a complete crank shaft assembly). Anyway these guys all used dynos to verify what they did produced gains somewhere in the power curve. An example is Kaz Yosima's 1981 CB900 air box modification which involved drilling two 3/4 in holes in the bottom of the air box; any more than two lowered power. The point of all this is to say that unless you can perform extensive testing and verify results you will in all likelihood end up 'hopping down' your engine. My advice is to say away from your air box as it is very difficult to improve on. JIM
02-03-2007 | 05:12 PM
#26
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10
I think you might have missed the point. I understand and completely agree with what you are saying. What I was trying to ask was why someone would focus on that aspect of the engine in an effort for more performance. The gains would be minimal (at best) on a stock engine. The money and effort would be better spent elsewhere.
And just to add, if you do hunt around you can still find alot of stuff for the storm, but work out what you want and how much time and money you are willing to spend first, don't ever half-*** anything
And didn't Big Valley Honda import HRC parts and moriwaki parts?, but in saying that, i know that neither company make parts for the storm anymore, sorry
02-03-2007 | 09:27 PM
#27
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 963
From: Sunshine Coast, Australia
What mods did you make to your intake? I played around with this just a couple of days ago since I have two complete airbox assemblies. I removed the snorkels and the blocking piece that screws to the top of the airbox. Since I didn't change the jetting the power definitely wasn't as smooth and had more of a flat spot in the middle, but I swear the engine pulled to redline noticeably quicker. I went back to the standard airbox, but I would like to experiment with this further.
The big change was the airfilter. Increasing the size of the filter allowed me to run much bigger jets. With a K&N filter, I run 170 Keihin Jets with my engine and exhaust combo. My exhaust runs baffles. With the different airfilter and no other changes, the jets went to 205. This testing was done on the dyno. An extra 5hp, and more torque was produced.
It did however make the engine rough at 5-6000 RPM constant throttle. It is assumed at this time that the extra airflow introduced into the airbox has upset the vacuum operated slides. This is just a theory, however I tried EVERYTHING I could think of to remove the problem, and reducing the airflow by going back to the K&N was the only solution.
The airfilter used in the testing was an Australian made Unifilter. It is much bigger in the surface area than the standard or K&N filter. Perhaps by as much as 20%. A good track mod for sure, but for the street will need more work on the airbox to get the airflow right for the slides to be settled.
Time on a flow bench one day might produce the right results.
02-08-2007 | 10:48 PM
#28
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SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
I've spoken with Bob Hayashida about this when I was building my engine and what he would recommend. He exhaustively dynos everything he tries. He was recently working on a CBR1000RR airbox changing the intake shape with modelling clay. He had done over 100 dyno pulls testing with a stocke engine before he even started engine development. I don't have that kind of time although I am very interested.
He tested airbox modifications extensively on the VTR. Stock engine and very highly modified engines. He advised me to do nothing to the airbox. He could get more peak HP, but it would cause a torque dip in the midrange.
Honda must have tested it extensively.
Modern bikes have ram air with open intakes. It's not about intake noise emissions.
He tested airbox modifications extensively on the VTR. Stock engine and very highly modified engines. He advised me to do nothing to the airbox. He could get more peak HP, but it would cause a torque dip in the midrange.
Honda must have tested it extensively.
Modern bikes have ram air with open intakes. It's not about intake noise emissions.
02-09-2007 | 08:02 AM
#29
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MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
I believe the RC has one also since I've seen some advertised with the "flapper valve mod".
02-09-2007 | 08:54 AM
#30
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SuperBike
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
We talked about this a while back and I certainly can't claim to have all of the answers. Only advice about what mods didn't work. The flapper valve may also be there to prevent pressure pulses in the airbox. At low vehicle speeds, there is not much ram-air and with two big slugs pulling air in, there are probably big air pulses. The intake snorkel, and long intake tracts in general tend to smooth out these pressure fluctuations, so that when the intake valve opens, there is a supply of high-pressure air available.
I've never heard of an intake mod that maintains or improves the flat torque curve. We like flat torque curves.
I've never heard of an intake mod that maintains or improves the flat torque curve. We like flat torque curves.
