CBR1000 fork legs; what triples
12-14-2009 | 12:32 AM
#4
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954 lowers are the easiest to use as you don't need to trim the fairing as you do with the SP1 lowers. The SP2 has a different diameter stem so don't try that one.
For the upper you need to decide if you want a flat or gull wing plate and use either a 954 or SP1 to suit your needs.
For the upper you need to decide if you want a flat or gull wing plate and use either a 954 or SP1 to suit your needs.
12-14-2009 | 09:34 AM
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12-31-2009 | 12:10 AM
#9
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They both use RaceTech parts, and are the experts on our exact bike they can do the best job. (and for a reasonable price too)
12-31-2009 | 08:52 AM
#10
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Absolutely, there is a lot of performance to be gained by upgrading the internals of the stock parts, bot front and rear. A complete front end change takes that up another notch, but I understand that it's a lot of work (and $$$) so it's something everyone would be interested in doing.
01-05-2010 | 06:28 PM
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To clarify, I do not use Racetech parts. I use modified stock parts with my own shimstacks. Our stock Showa 4-port valves are very similar to Ohlins valves, which also work very well. Honda uses mostly the HMAS stuff now, which has three larger ports. See the below pic for differences.
01-05-2010 | 08:57 PM
#15
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To clarify, I do not use Racetech parts. I use modified stock parts with my own shimstacks. Our stock Showa 4-port valves are very similar to Ohlins valves, which also work very well. Honda uses mostly the HMAS stuff now, which has three larger ports. See the below pic for differences.
01-05-2010 | 10:23 PM
#19
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01-05-2010 | 11:23 PM
#20
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HawkRider is one of two that I KNOW are using CBR1000RR forks, and both he and Tweety are using 929/954 triples.
I think what he means is that if you use the 929/954 triples you can use the stock wheel spacers at the bottom of the fork.. However I don't think you can mix a CBR1000RR lower triple with a 929/954 upper triple. I will be corrected if I am wrong though I am sure.
I think what he means is that if you use the 929/954 triples you can use the stock wheel spacers at the bottom of the fork.. However I don't think you can mix a CBR1000RR lower triple with a 929/954 upper triple. I will be corrected if I am wrong though I am sure.
01-06-2010 | 03:41 PM
#21
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That's correct. You have to use upper and lower from the 954/929. The 2mm difference means that the 929/954 triples place the forks 2mm wider then the 1000RR. Since there is much more than that stock (probably close to 3mm each side) that just means that it will be a smidgen more difficult to get the wheel installed as there is not as much play. Also this will be easier on your fork bushings since the forks are not torqued inward towards each other.
01-06-2010 | 03:45 PM
#22
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BTW guys, PLEASE read my fork swap thread here for all info: https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ight=fork+swap
01-06-2010 | 07:46 PM
#23
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To clarify, I do not use Racetech parts. I use modified stock parts with my own shimstacks. Our stock Showa 4-port valves are very similar to Ohlins valves, which also work very well. Honda uses mostly the HMAS stuff now, which has three larger ports. See the below pic for differences.
For those who are not asleep by now, please note that Greg does not leave the HMAS valves stock but adds some modifications. There are limitations to what the stock valves can do, that's why a change makes an improvement. The way it's done really depends on what you are after, which is why getting together with an experienced suspension tuner with data on your particular bike is really helpful.
01-07-2010 | 09:38 AM
#24
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Greg or anyone else.....what do you think about me changing out my front forks from 954 to 1000rr?
I don't ride hard enough on the street to think the 1000 forks will do anything for me. The only things I can pick out is...
-The radial brakes for cool/modern factor
-smaller rotors for less recipricating mass, slightly better handling.
-1000RR forks are shorter, slightly quicker handling as well.
I have a friend that road races in the open vintage class, 96 900RR.
He switched out to 1000RR forks and found it made the bike a little too twitchy for his liking. He went back to the taller 954 forks. 17" front wheel whole time. I clearly understand the SH is entirely different than the old 900RR, (wheelbase, weight distribution, chassis stiffness, so on...) Greg doesn't seem to complain of how his SH handles with the shorter forks.
For me these might just be enough to switch. Anything else I am overlooking?
My 954RR forks,brake calipers,front wheel might be up for grabs soon.
I don't ride hard enough on the street to think the 1000 forks will do anything for me. The only things I can pick out is...
-The radial brakes for cool/modern factor
-smaller rotors for less recipricating mass, slightly better handling.
-1000RR forks are shorter, slightly quicker handling as well.
I have a friend that road races in the open vintage class, 96 900RR.
He switched out to 1000RR forks and found it made the bike a little too twitchy for his liking. He went back to the taller 954 forks. 17" front wheel whole time. I clearly understand the SH is entirely different than the old 900RR, (wheelbase, weight distribution, chassis stiffness, so on...) Greg doesn't seem to complain of how his SH handles with the shorter forks.
For me these might just be enough to switch. Anything else I am overlooking?
My 954RR forks,brake calipers,front wheel might be up for grabs soon.
01-07-2010 | 10:27 AM
#25
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From: Fort Wayne, IN
I'd say you should be ok. Just remember that you should always check your chassis dimensions (front ride height, in this case) before and after making a change like this. That way you can ensure that you are making only a small change in geometry. Big changes are bad and can cause you to chase your tail trying to figure it out. Knowledge is power!
01-07-2010 | 10:36 AM
#26
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I'm not complaining either...
As far as them being shorter, the amount is minimal, in reality even less than measured in rest, as the 1000RR's are heavier sprung and therefore have less static sag than the 954RR's...
So unless you are either very light or have the 954RR's resprung to your weight the actual lenght of the forks should end up about the same...
I kind of doubt the change from a 954RR to 1000RR forks in terms of lenght was the reason for them being twitchier, I'd say there was some other setup problem that caused that behaviour...
As far as them being shorter, the amount is minimal, in reality even less than measured in rest, as the 1000RR's are heavier sprung and therefore have less static sag than the 954RR's...
So unless you are either very light or have the 954RR's resprung to your weight the actual lenght of the forks should end up about the same...
I kind of doubt the change from a 954RR to 1000RR forks in terms of lenght was the reason for them being twitchier, I'd say there was some other setup problem that caused that behaviour...
01-07-2010 | 11:19 AM
#27
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From: Olympia, WA
Testament that you and Greg are riding with them without issue is really enough for me.
My question is if you already had a "good" 954 setup would you still go after the 1000. Thinking about it, I can do it without spending a whole lot at this point because I can offset the cost with the sale of the 954 parts. I guess I'll just have to do it then....
01-07-2010 | 06:30 PM
#28
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Correction: the Honda HMAS valves are the ones that use the small 4 holes. On newer models Showa has been going back to the old style 3-port valves, which I feel are superior. The RaceTech valves are a high flow type similar to those valves.
For those who are not asleep by now, please note that Greg does not leave the HMAS valves stock but adds some modifications. There are limitations to what the stock valves can do, that's why a change makes an improvement. The way it's done really depends on what you are after, which is why getting together with an experienced suspension tuner with data on your particular bike is really helpful.
For those who are not asleep by now, please note that Greg does not leave the HMAS valves stock but adds some modifications. There are limitations to what the stock valves can do, that's why a change makes an improvement. The way it's done really depends on what you are after, which is why getting together with an experienced suspension tuner with data on your particular bike is really helpful.
BTW, Doug's (nuhawk's) Superhawk has Showa 3-ports from a GSX-R600. He's very happy with 'em.
Greg or anyone else.....what do you think about me changing out my front forks from 954 to 1000rr?
I don't ride hard enough on the street to think the 1000 forks will do anything for me. The only things I can pick out is...
-The radial brakes for cool/modern factor
-smaller rotors for less recipricating mass, slightly better handling.
-1000RR forks are shorter, slightly quicker handling as well.
I have a friend that road races in the open vintage class, 96 900RR.
He switched out to 1000RR forks and found it made the bike a little too twitchy for his liking. He went back to the taller 954 forks. 17" front wheel whole time. I clearly understand the SH is entirely different than the old 900RR, (wheelbase, weight distribution, chassis stiffness, so on...) Greg doesn't seem to complain of how his SH handles with the shorter forks.
For me these might just be enough to switch. Anything else I am overlooking?
My 954RR forks,brake calipers,front wheel might be up for grabs soon.
I don't ride hard enough on the street to think the 1000 forks will do anything for me. The only things I can pick out is...
-The radial brakes for cool/modern factor
-smaller rotors for less recipricating mass, slightly better handling.
-1000RR forks are shorter, slightly quicker handling as well.
I have a friend that road races in the open vintage class, 96 900RR.
He switched out to 1000RR forks and found it made the bike a little too twitchy for his liking. He went back to the taller 954 forks. 17" front wheel whole time. I clearly understand the SH is entirely different than the old 900RR, (wheelbase, weight distribution, chassis stiffness, so on...) Greg doesn't seem to complain of how his SH handles with the shorter forks.
For me these might just be enough to switch. Anything else I am overlooking?
My 954RR forks,brake calipers,front wheel might be up for grabs soon.
The rotors are larger, not smaller. The wheel is lighter though. I'd say it's a net gain in our favor.
The length should not be considered because the clipons will have to be mounted below the upper triple with the fork swap. That's a pretty big allowance for length. It's all in how you set it up. I had some wierd handling issues until I got things sorted out. I actually raised the forks in the triples because the rake and trail numbers were too far off (forks too long).
Another thing you have to consider during setup is that the completely different forks required completely different sag numbers - ~35mm laden sag vice ~25mm laden sag stock. This is due to longer top-out springs in the cartridge assemblies. It's a long discussion and would rather not go to in-depth right now.
So ultimately, if you're on the fence about sending the stockers off vice doing a front end swap depends on two things: Money and tech ability. The fork swap will be about 2-3 times as much as a revalve and respring after all is said and done. If you're good at this kind of **** and have the right tools, and won't dick it up when you start tearing into things then maybe it's for you.
List of things you'll need for a 1000RR fork swap that cost money:
-New bearings and races (AllBalls)
-1000RR front wheel, spacers, and axle
-929/954 triple clamps
-1000RR calipers, pads, rotors, and caliper bolts (spacers and longer bolts required for 06-07)
-1000RR front fender in your color (or carbon fiber) with hardware
-Ignition switch bezel (depending on year of VTR)
-Adjustable clip-ons with TALL risers (I used Convertibars)
-Wheel weights for spacers on steering lock
-Grinder or Dremel to grind steering stop
-Need to swap tire to new wheel and balance
-Hardware to clamp front brake lines
-Don't forget bar ends since they usually don't come with the clip-ons
-Grip glue (and maybe new grips?)
Do the math, then make your decision.
01-07-2010 | 07:03 PM
#29
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I would have to agree with you on this, very much a possibility.
Testament that you and Greg are riding with them without issue is really enough for me.
My question is if you already had a "good" 954 setup would you still go after the 1000. Thinking about it, I can do it without spending a whole lot at this point because I can offset the cost with the sale of the 954 parts. I guess I'll just have to do it then....
Testament that you and Greg are riding with them without issue is really enough for me.
My question is if you already had a "good" 954 setup would you still go after the 1000. Thinking about it, I can do it without spending a whole lot at this point because I can offset the cost with the sale of the 954 parts. I guess I'll just have to do it then....
Greg is right, on all counts...
But he's comparing VTR forks to CBR 1000RR...The 954 has 330mm rotors and the 1000RR has either 310mm or 320mm depending on the year... The wheel is somewhat lighter than the 954 wheel though...
As for the clip-ons... If it's working now it should work then...
I'd say go for it...
You will like the brakes...
01-07-2010 | 07:07 PM
#30
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From: Fulton, MO
Heh, I wish I'd actually READ his post. Yeah, 954 to 1000RR swap. Ain't I a dumbass....
Short answer: probably not worth the time, effort, and money. Maybe a revalve on the 954 forks would be a better value.
Short answer: probably not worth the time, effort, and money. Maybe a revalve on the 954 forks would be a better value.
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