520 Conversion, please explain
03-12-2010 | 03:29 PM
#32
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RE: "between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here,"...Makes for pretty booring riding though...[/
You must have one hell of a commute to work! That's almost 110 mph in 5th, stock trim.
You must have one hell of a commute to work! That's almost 110 mph in 5th, stock trim.
Probably not... The VTR isn't going to use much less gas on a long stretch of highway at speed with taller gearing... It's just not going to be able to rev out instead... As is now with stock gearing and a stock engine you actually have top speed in fifth as it can't reach full range in sixth...
Plus, taller gears mean to get you "better highway riding" would mean what lower revs? That's not going to improve mileage...
To get best possible mileage on a long run... Inflate the tires a bit over recommended, clean, lube and general overhaul of the driveline, clean your airfilter (or replace, as you please)...
Mechanicaly, a good carb setup will get you fuel efficiency... But that should have been done and tested looong before the roadtrip...
As for getting the most out of each tank, find the sweetspot in the RPM range... In theory an engine is most efficient at peak torque... (If we ignore all the possible losses and a lot of other stuff we can't really know or calculate as well...) On a stock engine peak torque is somewhere between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here, make very slow, slowmotion movements on the throttle and switch gears smoothly and you should increase mileage noticably...
Makes for pretty booring riding though...
Plus, taller gears mean to get you "better highway riding" would mean what lower revs? That's not going to improve mileage...
To get best possible mileage on a long run... Inflate the tires a bit over recommended, clean, lube and general overhaul of the driveline, clean your airfilter (or replace, as you please)...
Mechanicaly, a good carb setup will get you fuel efficiency... But that should have been done and tested looong before the roadtrip...
As for getting the most out of each tank, find the sweetspot in the RPM range... In theory an engine is most efficient at peak torque... (If we ignore all the possible losses and a lot of other stuff we can't really know or calculate as well...) On a stock engine peak torque is somewhere between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here, make very slow, slowmotion movements on the throttle and switch gears smoothly and you should increase mileage noticably...
Makes for pretty booring riding though...
03-12-2010 | 03:57 PM
#33
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Posts: 1,804
From: Atlanta, GA
Easy way to get a bit more grunt is simply replace the rear sprocket with a +2 530 one.
You don't need to get at the front sprocket or buy a new chain. You don't even have to remove the chain. Just pull the wheel, swap sprockets and put the wheel back on.
16/43 makes a difference you can feel. Changing chain and sprockets all at the same time is good general advice, but unless they're high mileage, I wouldn't (didn't) hassle it.
You don't need to get at the front sprocket or buy a new chain. You don't even have to remove the chain. Just pull the wheel, swap sprockets and put the wheel back on.
16/43 makes a difference you can feel. Changing chain and sprockets all at the same time is good general advice, but unless they're high mileage, I wouldn't (didn't) hassle it.
03-12-2010 | 05:05 PM
#34
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From: altoona, pa
03-12-2010 | 05:08 PM
#35
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what is everyones opinion on the Driven Racing range as i am/was about to purchase a 520 kit for my Firestorm (15/43) US$179 (+ US$45 postage to deliver to Australia) this price was for the alloy rear also..
http://www.drivenracing.com/content....rear-sprockets
http://www.drivenracing.com/content....rear-sprockets
03-12-2010 | 05:28 PM
#36
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Still, there's a great difference in what I was talking about and what you are talking about...
Peak performance of an angine is at peak torque... Why is easy, that's where you get the largest amount of fuel/air mixture into the cylinder and the most power... Less F/A = less torque and less efficient...
This is when ON power, accelerating... As said, keep the engine in that RPM range or close and make small, very small and smooth movements on the throttle and you can accelerate without burning to much fuel...
When you are going steady state, of course you can't do 7000 RPM's the whole way... When you get to sixth gear, have a small throttle opening and keep a constant speed, ie don't touch the throttle... Just sit there... No accelerating, no decelerating... If you need to overtake, let the revs build slowly towards peak and set up the pass in advance, don't wick the throttle open...
If you keep the throttle opening small at a reasonable RPM you are still getting decent efficiency... A whole lot better than mid RPM range and about half open throttle...
Now... This is not for a daily commute, and not for the fun riding... If you can't figure that out you should probably swap bike... But this is the kind of riding that lets me keep pace with several I4's on both speed and between fill ups on long booring highway hauls... At least to some extent... In the twisties, forget it...
03-12-2010 | 05:37 PM
#37
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
what is everyones opinion on the Driven Racing range as i am/was about to purchase a 520 kit for my Firestorm (15/43) US$179 (+ US$45 postage to deliver to Australia) this price was for the alloy rear also..
http://www.drivenracing.com/content....rear-sprockets
http://www.drivenracing.com/content....rear-sprockets
If you are doing track racing and need to swap gearing for different tracks and keep the weight to a bare minimum, then alu sprockets are useful...
Also do you clean and lube your chain after every ride? No?! Well, with an alu sprocket like your racing hero's use you probably should... Steel chain and alu sprocket plus road grime in the chain wax/oil and you get wear and tear...
On the road a full alu sprocket is a big waste of money... Do the math on the mileage vs cost and you'll think it's silly...
A hybrid like Supersprox is a good idea and actually more cost efficient than the alu sprocket... (Yeah, I did the math)
A 520 conversion does reduce mileage... But not nearly as much as a alu sprocket... And it probably saves as much weight...
03-12-2010 | 05:40 PM
#38
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From: Atlanta, GA
whoa! with all due respect, I must strongly disagree, that is, unless you're not very perceptive relative to how your bike accelerates/decelerates/turns/wheelies/etc. 520 chain/sprockets with alum rear---wow! I rode my SH for 7 years before the 520 conversion and it was a significant improvement. Reduction of spinning weight rocks.
In my opinion a gearing change is by far the best bang for the buck modification to improve the sportiness of the Hawk (in terms of go power).
Before you went to 15/44 what was your gearing?
Last edited by killer5280; 03-12-2010 at 06:07 PM.
03-12-2010 | 06:20 PM
#39
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Im happy to move on !
And Erik if you are there, no hard feelings o.k.
Last edited by hondavtr1000sp2; 03-19-2010 at 04:48 AM.
03-12-2010 | 06:44 PM
#40
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I have a 520 15/43 setup and I know all that and I still say that he won't notice it near as much as the gearing change itself. Sure, if you're going to change everything get a 520 setup because it's lighter and cheaper, but if you just want a bang from a gearing change just change one sprocket. Before I had the 520 setup I had a 15 tooth front sprocket and it was definitely an improvement over stock.
In my opinion a gearing change is by far the best bang for the buck modification to improve the sportiness of the Hawk (in terms of go power).
Before you went to 15/44 what was your gearing?
In my opinion a gearing change is by far the best bang for the buck modification to improve the sportiness of the Hawk (in terms of go power).
Before you went to 15/44 what was your gearing?
03-12-2010 | 07:01 PM
#41
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From: Melbourne Australia
And your statement was in regards to "word it correctly"
May be you should keep out of things.
03-12-2010 | 07:33 PM
#43
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As for getting the most out of each tank, find the sweetspot in the RPM range... In theory an engine is most efficient at peak torque... (If we ignore all the possible losses and a lot of other stuff we can't really know or calculate as well...) On a stock engine peak torque is somewhere between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here, make very slow, slowmotion movements on the throttle and switch gears smoothly and you should increase mileage noticably...
Makes for pretty booring riding though...
Riding at partial throttle at 7-7.5k will produce worse mileage than a wider throttle position at a lower RPM range in a taller gear, due to higher pumping losses.
That is, unless you are going fast enough that you are pinned at wide-open throttle, at 7500 RPM.
03-12-2010 | 08:19 PM
#45
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You'll get maximum acceleration at torque peak, which published charts show at about 6800 rpm.
You'll get the maximum MPG at the lowest rpm you can pull in 6th gear without lugging the engine - probably more like 3000 rpm on level ground.
You'll get the maximum MPG at the lowest rpm you can pull in 6th gear without lugging the engine - probably more like 3000 rpm on level ground.
03-12-2010 | 08:24 PM
#46
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started with oem, then went to 15/43vortex alum with oem wheels, then Carrozzeria wheels and 15/44 afam alum. I guess i don't think in terms of go-power alone, but am as much keen on agility(flipping it side to side), bump absorption for maintaining chassis stability, deceleration, gyroscopic effects, and general lightness of feel in the clip-ons based on improved suspension from reduced unsprung weight. I can't get enough of light unsprung, and esp spinning weight, and you can bet your bottom dollar I am salivating over the new Pilot Pure(2LBS LIGHTER- that's like buying $2000 wheels in terms of improvement in all the aformentioned areas)in anticipation of the serious spinning weight reduction at the outermost part of the rotations. I can't wait to wear out those Q2s.
Last edited by killer5280; 03-12-2010 at 08:42 PM.
03-12-2010 | 10:19 PM
#47
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From: Belgium, WI
taking your mirrors off,
running an extended windshield,
adding a speed hump to your back,
add a 'busa tail to close your wake,
enclose your front wheel
smooth off any openings in the body work
and stay in full tuck
But really, fuel mileage is hardly a consideration when riding the superhawk. Back to accel...
a 520 chain will not wear out due to stretching any faster than a 530, as the side plates are the same. Critical wear will happen at the rollers, and that will all depend on the amount of load it carries. If you are running it hard, you will chew threw chains. If you hwy ride, they would last pretty long. The weight will definitely make a difference, but if you want a quick accel kit that lasts, change your rear up 2 (using the 530) and buy the Michelin. The two pounds out at the contact patch will make more of a difference. If you want all the best of the best in light weight, it has been discussed at length in other posts.
03-13-2010 | 05:46 AM
#48
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From: thorold ontario
Rex... Have a look at this spreadsheet... It'll tell you whats speeds and RPM's equals what with any sprocket you want...
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...9&postcount=21
https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...9&postcount=21
hey, i may have a basic version of excel as itwont let me edit out the settings. any chance you could give me the top speed in 6th with stock vs 15/43 and also the cruising rpm in 6th at 60 mph please.
03-13-2010 | 05:55 AM
#49
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Gladly... Though you really dont need to edit stuff... If you have any working version of excel, putting in the gearings in the two boxes should make it calculate the table automaticly... (It even works in excel viewer which is freeware)
At the moment I'm on my iPhone which refuses to unzip stuff, so I'll do it tonight...
At the moment I'm on my iPhone which refuses to unzip stuff, so I'll do it tonight...
03-13-2010 | 05:57 AM
#50
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From: NSW Australia
Probably not... The VTR isn't going to use much less gas on a long stretch of highway at speed with taller gearing... It's just not going to be able to rev out instead... As is now with stock gearing and a stock engine you actually have top speed in fifth as it can't reach full range in sixth...
Plus, taller gears mean to get you "better highway riding" would mean what lower revs? That's not going to improve mileage...
To get best possible mileage on a long run... Inflate the tires a bit over recommended, clean, lube and general overhaul of the driveline, clean your airfilter (or replace, as you please)...
Mechanicaly, a good carb setup will get you fuel efficiency... But that should have been done and tested looong before the roadtrip...
As for getting the most out of each tank, find the sweetspot in the RPM range... In theory an engine is most efficient at peak torque... (If we ignore all the possible losses and a lot of other stuff we can't really know or calculate as well...) On a stock engine peak torque is somewhere between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here, make very slow, slowmotion movements on the throttle and switch gears smoothly and you should increase mileage noticably...
Makes for pretty booring riding though...
Plus, taller gears mean to get you "better highway riding" would mean what lower revs? That's not going to improve mileage...
To get best possible mileage on a long run... Inflate the tires a bit over recommended, clean, lube and general overhaul of the driveline, clean your airfilter (or replace, as you please)...
Mechanicaly, a good carb setup will get you fuel efficiency... But that should have been done and tested looong before the roadtrip...
As for getting the most out of each tank, find the sweetspot in the RPM range... In theory an engine is most efficient at peak torque... (If we ignore all the possible losses and a lot of other stuff we can't really know or calculate as well...) On a stock engine peak torque is somewhere between 7000 and 7500 RPM... Keep the engine here, make very slow, slowmotion movements on the throttle and switch gears smoothly and you should increase mileage noticably...
Makes for pretty booring riding though...
03-13-2010 | 05:59 AM
#51
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SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,978
From: thorold ontario
Gladly... Though you really dont need to edit stuff... If you have any working version of excel, putting in the gearings in the two boxes should make it calculate the table automaticly... (It even works in excel viewer which is freeware)
At the moment I'm on my iPhone which refuses to unzip stuff, so I'll do it tonight...
At the moment I'm on my iPhone which refuses to unzip stuff, so I'll do it tonight...
is there a trick to editing the fields? ive tied clicking double clicking mashing random buttons with my fat fingers. and nothing seemed to let me edit
03-13-2010 | 08:50 AM
#52
pragmatic anarchist
Superstock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 380
From: Philadelphia, PA
Actually it IS the same guy posting under different names. At least I've never seen them together! Also, we can all word stuff correctly and in one post and still be idiots... even MAJOR idiots. Thirdly...hell no, never have , never will! But I'm not gonna tell you to **** off since I'm a gentleman.
03-13-2010 | 08:54 AM
#53
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From: Massachusetts
Hopefully I've got this correct. if not, others can help.
The tack shows 9500 RPM at red line though the bike won't pull red line in 6th with stock gearing. As noted in other posts in stock gearing it has a higher top speed in 5th than 6th.
That said, using the spreadsheet:
Stock gearing
5th gear = 148 @ red line
6th gear = 166 @ red line
60 MPH cruise in stock 6th gear is about 3400 RPM
15/43 gearing
5th gear = 132 @ red line
6th gear = 149 @ red line
60 MPH cruise in stock 6th gear is about 3850 RPM
In reality with stock or revised gearing, I've never been able to coax more than a tick over 150 out of the bike. I use a speedo healer to correct tack error and compare it to my GPS unit. The motor just runs out of steam around 150. Still, its great fun getting there.
Hope this helps.
The tack shows 9500 RPM at red line though the bike won't pull red line in 6th with stock gearing. As noted in other posts in stock gearing it has a higher top speed in 5th than 6th.
That said, using the spreadsheet:
Stock gearing
5th gear = 148 @ red line
6th gear = 166 @ red line
60 MPH cruise in stock 6th gear is about 3400 RPM
15/43 gearing
5th gear = 132 @ red line
6th gear = 149 @ red line
60 MPH cruise in stock 6th gear is about 3850 RPM
In reality with stock or revised gearing, I've never been able to coax more than a tick over 150 out of the bike. I use a speedo healer to correct tack error and compare it to my GPS unit. The motor just runs out of steam around 150. Still, its great fun getting there.
Hope this helps.
03-13-2010 | 09:10 AM
#54
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
The choice of rear sprocket has a lot to do with life expectancy, with a 520 chain.
I've had really good life with AFAM sprockets. I'm sure Renthals are quite good.
Vortex seems to be too soft, from what I've read.
I would expect a minimum of 2 years life (>10k miles) with a 520 chain for normal street riding in the canyons. On a race bike, 1 full season.
since you will b replacing your chain and sprockets eventually anyway, it's free acceleration at wide-open throttle!
I seem to recall having had this discussion (partly at least) before...
03-13-2010 | 04:21 PM
#56
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
If you stick to changing stuff in the yellow boxes, no calculations are messed up...
You can even figure out the difference with another rear tire size...
Ok... That didn't work out as intended... New edit... Now changing the dimensions of the rear tire actually reflects on the calculated speed in stock vs actual column...
Last edited by Tweety; 03-13-2010 at 04:48 PM.
03-13-2010 | 04:44 PM
#57
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From: Way Out West
You can also do it with a calculator, on paper or maybe in your head.
The OEM rear sprocket has 41 teeth. that's 100% of the stock sprocket. Each tooth is 100/41 equals 2.439% change (in rpm at given speed) when you go up or down on sprocket size.
For the front sprocket it's 100/16 equals a 6.25% change per tooth up or down.
The OEM rear sprocket has 41 teeth. that's 100% of the stock sprocket. Each tooth is 100/41 equals 2.439% change (in rpm at given speed) when you go up or down on sprocket size.
For the front sprocket it's 100/16 equals a 6.25% change per tooth up or down.
03-13-2010 | 04:55 PM
#59
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
You can also do it with a calculator, on paper or maybe in your head.
The OEM rear sprocket has 41 teeth. that's 100% of the stock sprocket. Each tooth is 100/41 equals 2.439% change (in rpm at given speed) when you go up or down on sprocket size.
For the front sprocket it's 100/16 equals a 6.25% change per tooth up or down.
The OEM rear sprocket has 41 teeth. that's 100% of the stock sprocket. Each tooth is 100/41 equals 2.439% change (in rpm at given speed) when you go up or down on sprocket size.
For the front sprocket it's 100/16 equals a 6.25% change per tooth up or down.
In my instance I'm now running a 190/55 rear tire on a CBR1000RR rear wheel... Paired with a 16/42 gearing I'm now at 236 Kph instead of 237... But the change in tire dimension alone compared to stock would have been 241 vs 237... So now I can probably benefit from swapping to my 43 rear sprocket...
03-13-2010 | 05:02 PM
#60
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Out of curiosity, I just tried it in OpenOffice and it worked just fine with all the calculations... So unless you wan't to pay Micro$oft unneccesary money, that's an viable option...
