MOSFET Regulator/Rectifiers - The Why & The How
04-23-2011 | 01:26 PM
#61
mad skill collector
Squid
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 77
From: Hayward, San Francisco bay area: California
Tweety, great semiconductor r/r info. .I believe both MOSFET and Thyristor devices and for that matter all diodes,batteries and conductors, have smoke inside that makes them work.
I know this because when I let the smoke out...... It stops working.
My advice is to not let the smoke out and your electrical system will be fine..
peace...
I know this because when I let the smoke out...... It stops working.
My advice is to not let the smoke out and your electrical system will be fine..
peace...
04-23-2011 | 02:17 PM
#62
Banned
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 5,942
From: Lake View Terrace, CA
05-02-2011 | 08:45 PM
#65
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
From: Tampa Florida
Got my Fh011 R/R from an R1 today. are there any pics of cut R/Rs? My bike is 30 miles away and I would like to cut it here in my garage first. Also when crimping the spade connectors do yall solder them as well?
05-03-2011 | 01:47 AM
#66
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The correct way of doing the connectors is to lightly tin the wire first, then crimp, and then solder... Just make sure not to make it too bulky, since it won't fit the waterproof connectors then...
If you are skimping on the waterproof connectors, read this... I posted it in another thread...
No... You should not... The reason for the Eastern Beaver plugs for the newer kawi R/R's are that they are waterproof, and that also means corrosion proof (to a point)... The older kawi plugs are not, and neither are the stock Honda plugs, so those are fairly useless...
What you should do, is use standard connectors like the one's you got... But first strip the wire and solder it, and then crimp the connector on, and then once that's done, solder over the crimp... That way you have no place for corrosion or resistance to build up...
Than when that's done, get a heatgun and shrinktube with hotglue inside... When you isolate each connector with that, letting it go over both the actual connector, and a good bit up on the wire... That makes it waterproof...
Then put a fairly large dab of white vaseline into each connector before putting them on... That seals them as best as possible...
What you should do, is use standard connectors like the one's you got... But first strip the wire and solder it, and then crimp the connector on, and then once that's done, solder over the crimp... That way you have no place for corrosion or resistance to build up...
Than when that's done, get a heatgun and shrinktube with hotglue inside... When you isolate each connector with that, letting it go over both the actual connector, and a good bit up on the wire... That makes it waterproof...
Then put a fairly large dab of white vaseline into each connector before putting them on... That seals them as best as possible...
05-03-2011 | 09:48 AM
#67
Senior Member
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 521
From: Tampa Florida
I was asking because I wanted to keep some of the fins and it is worrisome to cut off so much.
Yikes thats allot of cutting!
Also if you have trouble figuring out what to buy this looks like it.
Yikes thats allot of cutting!
Also if you have trouble figuring out what to buy this looks like it.
05-03-2011 | 09:57 AM
#68
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
I'd wait till I could test fit it before cutting though. Just bring a hacksaw, I doubt that is super tough material.
05-26-2011 | 04:25 AM
#71
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The most effient type of R/R is the series type... And obviously the most efficient way of constructing that is by using MOSFETS... But it's also a lot more expensive, and while it's efficient it has a few other drawbacks, like being a bit fragile... It will not blow other stuff up, or overcharge stuff... But if you push the limits you are still walking home...
Best middle way, and best bang for your buck... A used MOSFET based shunt type R/R...
05-26-2011 | 08:45 AM
#72
ride it out
SuperSport
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 745
From: NH
the terms shunt series/series shunt are generally used when working with amplifiers, such as current or voltage amplifiers. basically a current source amplifying a voltage or a voltage source amplifying a current.
06-13-2011 | 04:37 PM
#73
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 807
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
I installed a FH008 reg/rec from a 2007 CBR600RR on my 2001 VTR last week. My bike had about 83,000 km. on it when I did the conversion from the original stock finned non-mosfet reg/rec to the mosfet reg/rec.
Before I did the conversion, I measured the voltage at the battery: voltage with the engine off was 13.07, voltage at idle was 14.17, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 13.3. After the conversion: voltage with the engine off was 12.7, voltage at idle was 13.83, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 14.05.
A few days later, I measured voltage again with a different meter: voltage with the engine off was 12.77, voltage at idle was 13.82, voltage at 4000 rpm. was 13.92.
I was hoping for 14.1 to 14.5 volts because some of the others who had done the conversion got readings within that range. I cleaned the connectors but cleaning them made no difference. It should be noted that I connected the FH008 to the existing wiring loom. I may have gotten higher readings if I had wired the reg/rec directly to the battery.
There were some benefits that I did not expect. The bike warmed up more quickly and was less prone to stalling. Throttle response improved noticeably. My heated vest was noticeably warmer.
Before I did the conversion, I measured the voltage at the battery: voltage with the engine off was 13.07, voltage at idle was 14.17, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 13.3. After the conversion: voltage with the engine off was 12.7, voltage at idle was 13.83, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 14.05.
A few days later, I measured voltage again with a different meter: voltage with the engine off was 12.77, voltage at idle was 13.82, voltage at 4000 rpm. was 13.92.
I was hoping for 14.1 to 14.5 volts because some of the others who had done the conversion got readings within that range. I cleaned the connectors but cleaning them made no difference. It should be noted that I connected the FH008 to the existing wiring loom. I may have gotten higher readings if I had wired the reg/rec directly to the battery.
There were some benefits that I did not expect. The bike warmed up more quickly and was less prone to stalling. Throttle response improved noticeably. My heated vest was noticeably warmer.
06-14-2011 | 01:34 AM
#74
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I installed a FH008 reg/rec from a 2007 CBR600RR on my 2001 VTR last week. My bike had about 83,000 km. on it when I did the conversion from the original stock finned non-mosfet reg/rec to the mosfet reg/rec.
Before I did the conversion, I measured the voltage at the battery: voltage with the engine off was 13.07, voltage at idle was 14.17, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 13.3. After the conversion: voltage with the engine off was 12.7, voltage at idle was 13.83, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 14.05.
A few days later, I measured voltage again with a different meter: voltage with the engine off was 12.77, voltage at idle was 13.82, voltage at 4000 rpm. was 13.92.
I was hoping for 14.1 to 14.5 volts because some of the others who had done the conversion got readings within that range. I cleaned the connectors but cleaning them made no difference. It should be noted that I connected the FH008 to the existing wiring loom. I may have gotten higher readings if I had wired the reg/rec directly to the battery.
There were some benefits that I did not expect. The bike warmed up more quickly and was less prone to stalling. Throttle response improved noticeably. My heated vest was noticeably warmer.
Before I did the conversion, I measured the voltage at the battery: voltage with the engine off was 13.07, voltage at idle was 14.17, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 13.3. After the conversion: voltage with the engine off was 12.7, voltage at idle was 13.83, voltage at 3500 rpm. was 14.05.
A few days later, I measured voltage again with a different meter: voltage with the engine off was 12.77, voltage at idle was 13.82, voltage at 4000 rpm. was 13.92.
I was hoping for 14.1 to 14.5 volts because some of the others who had done the conversion got readings within that range. I cleaned the connectors but cleaning them made no difference. It should be noted that I connected the FH008 to the existing wiring loom. I may have gotten higher readings if I had wired the reg/rec directly to the battery.
There were some benefits that I did not expect. The bike warmed up more quickly and was less prone to stalling. Throttle response improved noticeably. My heated vest was noticeably warmer.
06-14-2011 | 07:01 AM
#75
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 807
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Thanks for the advice, Tweety. I'll check and clean all the connectors on the wiring from the stator to the reg/rec and from the reg/rec to the battery the next time I've got a free afternoon.
06-26-2011 | 11:16 AM
#76
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,926
From: Bisbee, AZ
Here is another MOSFET R/R. It was OEM on 2002-03 R1 YZF1000. Yamahaha
p/n 5BN-81960-00-00. Shindengen p/n FH001 have no idea the amps rating, as the list from Shin-ding-dong (Shindengen) that was posted only included FH012 and FH019. Based on the p/n and listed amp ratings, this one is most likely lower amps. How low? Your guess? I will say that it has been on my SH for 6 or 7 months with no problems. I initially checked the output voltage and was satisfied, though I don't recall the exact volts.
Also for those of you in dry climates and too cheap, or waiting for Eastern Beaver R/R conversion harness to arrive (me) you can remove the Honda stock plastic plug without cutting it off. This saves the trouble of cutting, crimping/ soldering. If you look inside the plug you will see a tab protruding from the female terminals inside the plastic plug. Depress this tab. I believe there is a tool to do this very task, but since I don't own one I used a flattened piece of safety wire (a small jewelers screwdriver might work) pushed into the plug forcing the tab out of engagement and simply pull the wire out of the plug. Then just install the female terminals on the new R/R terminals. It's a clean connection, but be careful of the exposed part of the spade terminal touching the frame of the bike, or you will let smoke out of the system and things wont work so well anymore.
p/n 5BN-81960-00-00. Shindengen p/n FH001 have no idea the amps rating, as the list from Shin-ding-dong (Shindengen) that was posted only included FH012 and FH019. Based on the p/n and listed amp ratings, this one is most likely lower amps. How low? Your guess? I will say that it has been on my SH for 6 or 7 months with no problems. I initially checked the output voltage and was satisfied, though I don't recall the exact volts.
Also for those of you in dry climates and too cheap, or waiting for Eastern Beaver R/R conversion harness to arrive (me) you can remove the Honda stock plastic plug without cutting it off. This saves the trouble of cutting, crimping/ soldering. If you look inside the plug you will see a tab protruding from the female terminals inside the plastic plug. Depress this tab. I believe there is a tool to do this very task, but since I don't own one I used a flattened piece of safety wire (a small jewelers screwdriver might work) pushed into the plug forcing the tab out of engagement and simply pull the wire out of the plug. Then just install the female terminals on the new R/R terminals. It's a clean connection, but be careful of the exposed part of the spade terminal touching the frame of the bike, or you will let smoke out of the system and things wont work so well anymore.
07-01-2011 | 11:04 AM
#77
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 25
From: Coldwater, MI
Try this one out: Will run you $95
Honda VTR1000 Esport Regulator Rectifier - Super Duty - ESR587 by Electro Sport
or for a complete MOSFET upgrade look on eBay for a UNIVERSAL MOTORCYCLE REGULATOR & UPGRADE KIT MOSFET by SHINDENGEN: Will run you $125
UNIVERSAL MOTORCYCLE REGULATOR & UPGRADE KIT MOSFET | eBay
Honda VTR1000 Esport Regulator Rectifier - Super Duty - ESR587 by Electro Sport
or for a complete MOSFET upgrade look on eBay for a UNIVERSAL MOTORCYCLE REGULATOR & UPGRADE KIT MOSFET by SHINDENGEN: Will run you $125
UNIVERSAL MOTORCYCLE REGULATOR & UPGRADE KIT MOSFET | eBay
07-01-2011 | 11:12 AM
#78
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 25
From: Coldwater, MI
I just ran into some trouble with my bike. Bought a new battery because the first one died (I think because of the R/R now), then this new one died within 2 days. Had to push start it. Got it running, figured I would get on the highway for a bit to charge the battery, had my lights and instruments all go off on me but the bike kept running. Made it back home, but that's where it sits now until I get the fix...
I'm hoping its my R/R. I really hate spending money on something and not having it be the correct fix if you know what I mean. Is there anyway to tell? I hope those are the symptoms of a bad R/R. I looked it up and read all I could read on the forum here. Learned alot from Mr. Tweety in all the reading. What are your suggestions with the 2 things I have listed above? I also have the link to buy the R6/R1 R/R and do the mod from the Firestorm / SuperHawk (VTR1000F) Regulator Rectifier Modification website. I'm not sure what to follow. I of course want the cheapest route.
Someone please help me!!
I'm hoping its my R/R. I really hate spending money on something and not having it be the correct fix if you know what I mean. Is there anyway to tell? I hope those are the symptoms of a bad R/R. I looked it up and read all I could read on the forum here. Learned alot from Mr. Tweety in all the reading. What are your suggestions with the 2 things I have listed above? I also have the link to buy the R6/R1 R/R and do the mod from the Firestorm / SuperHawk (VTR1000F) Regulator Rectifier Modification website. I'm not sure what to follow. I of course want the cheapest route.
Someone please help me!!
07-01-2011 | 02:49 PM
#79
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 320
nick_packer,
Look at this link: http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf
This is a flow chart that walks you through how to test your electrical system to see what's messed up. I used this chart, and it worked for me. If you have basic knowledge of how to use a multimeter, or can learn how to use a multimeter, then you can follow this chart.
Out of ignorance, I bought the Electrosport R/R just over a year ago, and it has worked for me so far (for just over a year). It pumps out a little bit too much voltage though, at 14.75V constant at all RPM. From what I've read, this is likely too high for a typical battery, and might shorten the life of the battery over time (although I haven't had any problems yet). And it's NOT a MOSFET.
If it is your R/R causing your problems, which it's very likely that it is, I would use a MOSFET type, either the SHINDENGEN one you linked to on eBay, or an R6/R1 R/R if you can find one cheap. Or any other MOSFET type listed in this thread for that matter.
Look at this link: http://www.electrosport.com/technica...ng-diagram.pdf
This is a flow chart that walks you through how to test your electrical system to see what's messed up. I used this chart, and it worked for me. If you have basic knowledge of how to use a multimeter, or can learn how to use a multimeter, then you can follow this chart.
Out of ignorance, I bought the Electrosport R/R just over a year ago, and it has worked for me so far (for just over a year). It pumps out a little bit too much voltage though, at 14.75V constant at all RPM. From what I've read, this is likely too high for a typical battery, and might shorten the life of the battery over time (although I haven't had any problems yet). And it's NOT a MOSFET.
If it is your R/R causing your problems, which it's very likely that it is, I would use a MOSFET type, either the SHINDENGEN one you linked to on eBay, or an R6/R1 R/R if you can find one cheap. Or any other MOSFET type listed in this thread for that matter.
07-02-2011 | 12:57 AM
#80
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
The whatever cheap stuff is a band-aid... It gets your bike running now, for a low cost, but it will cost you in the end once you start needing to replace batteries, ECU/CDI's and burnt wiring...
Spend the time cleaning out corroded wiring/connectors, and spend the money for a MOSFET R/R and it will end up costing you less in the long run...
But the choice is yours to make...
10-22-2011 | 12:47 PM
#81
SportTouring
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 274
From: Hawaii
Tweety, another great thread.
As mentioned on another post your info always is appreciated. On my '87 VFR700F2, the corroded burned connector was the three yellow wires from the stator to the R/R. Both sides of the connector had black heat marks on two of the wires. Corroded rusted spades. One wire connection was fine with shiny spades. I will be soldering the three yellow wires with shrink wrap and just bypass the connector totally.
R/R problems are also a big problem on the VFRs apparently from the VFRWorld site.
Got practice from when mine went out on my '98 SH about 7 years ago. I Never
had the problem with the connector frying though. I Better check the S/H too.
As mentioned on another post your info always is appreciated. On my '87 VFR700F2, the corroded burned connector was the three yellow wires from the stator to the R/R. Both sides of the connector had black heat marks on two of the wires. Corroded rusted spades. One wire connection was fine with shiny spades. I will be soldering the three yellow wires with shrink wrap and just bypass the connector totally.
R/R problems are also a big problem on the VFRs apparently from the VFRWorld site.
Got practice from when mine went out on my '98 SH about 7 years ago. I Never
had the problem with the connector frying though. I Better check the S/H too.
10-23-2011 | 07:32 AM
#82
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,631
From: Montreal
Another great education from Markus.
I have just ordered a Shindengen MOSFET R/R (model no. FH012AA, in kit form with instructions for dummies like myself) on eBay following the read. Better off spending a few dollars to protect my electrical system, especially my ($$) Li-ion battery.
Thanks again Markus
I have just ordered a Shindengen MOSFET R/R (model no. FH012AA, in kit form with instructions for dummies like myself) on eBay following the read. Better off spending a few dollars to protect my electrical system, especially my ($$) Li-ion battery.
Thanks again Markus
03-04-2012 | 10:35 AM
#83
SuperHawk Outsider
Squid
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1
From: White House, TN
I don't own a SuperHawk. I own a 1998 VFR. The VFR R/R is notoriously bad. I came accross this thread in my search for R/R solutions.
I joined this site for the sole purpose of saying thanks to Tweety.
Thanks!
Kelly
I joined this site for the sole purpose of saying thanks to Tweety.
Thanks!
Kelly
03-05-2012 | 08:48 AM
#84
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
03-05-2012 | 08:55 AM
#85
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,871
From: Phoenix, AZ
03-05-2012 | 10:02 AM
#86
Thread Starter
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
03-31-2012 | 08:47 AM
#87
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 22
Tweety: Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge. I really appreciate your time and effort in helping us through this issue.
This morning I replaced the OEM R/R with a MOSFET unit. I used the OEM female connector for a clean and easy connection. That said, it took some time to dig out the soldered connections from the epoxy and then use a heat gun to get the OEM connector out in one piece. Then it was a matter of soldering up the connections and testing for continuity. I epoxied up the soldered area to provide better strain relief since there was no way to crimp the wires onto the connections. Now, I have peace of mind that I won't be stranded by failure of the OEM R/R.
This morning I replaced the OEM R/R with a MOSFET unit. I used the OEM female connector for a clean and easy connection. That said, it took some time to dig out the soldered connections from the epoxy and then use a heat gun to get the OEM connector out in one piece. Then it was a matter of soldering up the connections and testing for continuity. I epoxied up the soldered area to provide better strain relief since there was no way to crimp the wires onto the connections. Now, I have peace of mind that I won't be stranded by failure of the OEM R/R.
03-31-2012 | 11:09 PM
#88
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14
Limp Mode to get home?
I am hoping that you guys monitor this thread. We are on a 3 day ride. We left Friday afternoon from Tulsa and when we got to Fayetteville, my bike wouldn't start. I jump started it and went to Autozone and got a new battery. I had it on the battery tender over Thursday night and my battery was about 4 years old. It seemed pretty warm but I just chalked the issue up to age. Today we were 200 miles into the trip, buzzing along and my bike just quit all together. No lights at all. The day old sealed battery was smoking - I think the battery acid was seaping out around the edges creating the smoke/steam. So, my buddy went and bought new battery number 2 for the weekend as we were 50 miles from anywhere. The bike started up again, the headlight bulb has burned out and the tach doesn't work. All other lights and functions are fine.
Anyway, limped to our hotel 40 miles away (which was interesting without a headlight after dark).
Now I am wondering what I can do to limp home in the morning:
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
John
Anyway, limped to our hotel 40 miles away (which was interesting without a headlight after dark).
Now I am wondering what I can do to limp home in the morning:
- Can I get a voltmeter and find the peak rpm that creates 14.4V or less (assuming a fuse fixes my tach or memorize the sound at that rpm)? Then just keep it under that until we make it straight home.
- Do I need to drive, say, an hour at a time and them stop to let everything cool down for 30 minutes? Both failed batteries were pretty hot. But I don't normally mess with the battery to know if that is really normal.
- Just ride and have a good time and see if I can make it home before I cook another battery?
- Am I going to cause more problems by riding the bike like this? Riding bitch back to Tulsa and coming back with a truck doesn't sound too tempting...
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks,
John
Last edited by ridinon0$; 03-31-2012 at 11:21 PM.
03-31-2012 | 11:21 PM
#89
Old and dangerous
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 604
From: DFW Texas
It's my understanding that these can fail open or closed. Closed allows the voltage to go way up, potentially frying your electronics, including your ECU. Failing open doesn't allow current through. It sounds like you are very close to frying your ECU, as you have fried a couple batteries and burned out your headlight. We'll have to wait for the experts to chime in on a limp home mode. I once drove a VW Rabbit from Texas to Georgia on battery power only, as my alternator died and I had to get back to Fort Benning or I was toast. Had to stop every so often and get it charged at a service station. Maybe the SuperHawk will run off a charged battery with the charging system disconnected somehow so you can get it home.
03-31-2012 | 11:32 PM
#90
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 14
Thanks for the super quick reply. I am definitely concerned about cooking expensive parts... Here is a pic from today for your enjoyment. I haven't been riding in a while and I was excited to see the 'crooked and steep sign'...
