ride turned ugly-mistakes made
11-07-2011 | 07:45 AM
#1
Thread Starter
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MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
ride turned ugly-mistakes made
nice weather sunday ride: 2 Hawks, B-King, MVAugusta,1198 Ducati, and 600yami. Me and rob(the drummer), his neighbor and three of the neighbor's friends.
We decided to do a short ride because the duc rider had to be back in a few hours and i knew the route. We get to our half-way destination with only one delay where we had to back track a couple miles to check on a couple riders, no biggy. We stop to warm hands, get some pics, shoot the bull, and finally decide on the route home.
On the last leg of route changes, rob and i pulled over to wait for the others. We had last contact when all bikes left an intersection together about five miles back. We waited for about 5-10 min and decided that they must have turned at the road before which is the shorter way home, maybe to get the duc rider home earlier. So rob and continued on. Too much assuming makes ans *** out of U and ME. Dumbass mistake #1 as we discover later via phone call at home.
We should have back-tracked 5 miles and would have discovered the yami rider went off the road into someone's yard....not hurt. minimal damage. Then the four of them continued on the planned route. A few miles later, the MV rider trashed his new ride on a narrow twisty mountain road. They had to gather him up(fractured arm) and coast his bike down to a wide spot, call for help, hospital, etc.
Later i discover that this was the MV riders first bike ever and the 2000miles were his only. Mistake#2: didn't find out the experience level of riders in the group. Dumbasses assume that people with these kinds of bikes have at least some riding experience.
Well, I didn't sleep worth a **** last night, upset with myself at being so ignorant. Glad that they didn't need us or i might be suffering a lot of pain for a very long time.
Hopefully this incident might help others and, for me, lessons learned.
We decided to do a short ride because the duc rider had to be back in a few hours and i knew the route. We get to our half-way destination with only one delay where we had to back track a couple miles to check on a couple riders, no biggy. We stop to warm hands, get some pics, shoot the bull, and finally decide on the route home.
On the last leg of route changes, rob and i pulled over to wait for the others. We had last contact when all bikes left an intersection together about five miles back. We waited for about 5-10 min and decided that they must have turned at the road before which is the shorter way home, maybe to get the duc rider home earlier. So rob and continued on. Too much assuming makes ans *** out of U and ME. Dumbass mistake #1 as we discover later via phone call at home.
We should have back-tracked 5 miles and would have discovered the yami rider went off the road into someone's yard....not hurt. minimal damage. Then the four of them continued on the planned route. A few miles later, the MV rider trashed his new ride on a narrow twisty mountain road. They had to gather him up(fractured arm) and coast his bike down to a wide spot, call for help, hospital, etc.
Later i discover that this was the MV riders first bike ever and the 2000miles were his only. Mistake#2: didn't find out the experience level of riders in the group. Dumbasses assume that people with these kinds of bikes have at least some riding experience.
Well, I didn't sleep worth a **** last night, upset with myself at being so ignorant. Glad that they didn't need us or i might be suffering a lot of pain for a very long time.
Hopefully this incident might help others and, for me, lessons learned.
11-07-2011 | 07:58 AM
#2
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SuperBike
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,090
From: Big Lick
yeah, that's the reason I prefer not riding in large groups, particularly on sport bikes. It seems that testosterone invariably takes over and someone ends up riding above their skill level.
The good part is there were others to help them, so no harm in your decision.
The good part is there were others to help them, so no harm in your decision.
11-07-2011 | 08:05 AM
#3
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
First, glad nobody was seriously hurt... Don't beat yourself up too bad...
I agree to some degree, it's a question that should probably be asked... But, if you are new, pipe up and say so... If people don't say, how should you know?
I have been guilty of making the same mistake of not asking when people showed up on high-end machines... I actually had a new rider with a fresh license (albeit with Swedish rules it is a bit different) show up on a group ride on a twisty road on a Hayabusa... That time, I and others noticed his inexperience fairly quick, and had a chat with him before anyone got hurt... But there have been other times...
My general rule since a long time, I ride with people I know, and anyone new, get's the third degree, before we leave... For my safety as well as thiers... And in a few cases where new rides have disagreed with my decision that I would not ride with them under those circumstances, I simply left and went home... If they want to gamble with thier lives to that degree, they can do it without me enabling them...
I agree to some degree, it's a question that should probably be asked... But, if you are new, pipe up and say so... If people don't say, how should you know?
I have been guilty of making the same mistake of not asking when people showed up on high-end machines... I actually had a new rider with a fresh license (albeit with Swedish rules it is a bit different) show up on a group ride on a twisty road on a Hayabusa... That time, I and others noticed his inexperience fairly quick, and had a chat with him before anyone got hurt... But there have been other times...
My general rule since a long time, I ride with people I know, and anyone new, get's the third degree, before we leave... For my safety as well as thiers... And in a few cases where new rides have disagreed with my decision that I would not ride with them under those circumstances, I simply left and went home... If they want to gamble with thier lives to that degree, they can do it without me enabling them...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-07-2011 at 08:07 AM.
11-07-2011 | 08:41 AM
#4
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Squid
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 59
just out of curiosity, when you meet these lower level/experience riders, do you not ride with them at all or do you basically make sure they are going to take it easy? I ask, because everyone has to start somewhere. I know I am far from experienced and have a lot to learn, but its not like its safe to go ride and build my skill on my own...
I am sorry for your experience and for the guys that had problems. Cant change the past or other people's actions; dont let it eat you up inside. Glad all is at least relatively well.
I am sorry for your experience and for the guys that had problems. Cant change the past or other people's actions; dont let it eat you up inside. Glad all is at least relatively well.
11-07-2011 | 09:17 AM
#5
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
I ride with people of all skill levels, some I learn from, some I try to pass on a few tricks to...
The rules I stick to personally are easy... ATGATT for starters, I don't ride with people that show up in flipflops, jeans or whatever... If you have the money for a bike, you have the money for full gear... It's that simple...
The most important one though, if you are new, say so... Or at least be honest when asked... If you are new, and ride your own ride, we can all co-exist happily... And if there are a newer rider along, I'll either dial it down, or at least keep an eye out... For the same reasons nath is beating himself up... If you know, you can adjust... If you don't, people can get hurt...
The only riders I refuse to ride with are the one's that refuse to listen to reason... A new rider on a powerful bike, on twisty roads is a potentially lethal combination... And that isn't limited to the rider on that bike...
The rules I stick to personally are easy... ATGATT for starters, I don't ride with people that show up in flipflops, jeans or whatever... If you have the money for a bike, you have the money for full gear... It's that simple...
The most important one though, if you are new, say so... Or at least be honest when asked... If you are new, and ride your own ride, we can all co-exist happily... And if there are a newer rider along, I'll either dial it down, or at least keep an eye out... For the same reasons nath is beating himself up... If you know, you can adjust... If you don't, people can get hurt...
The only riders I refuse to ride with are the one's that refuse to listen to reason... A new rider on a powerful bike, on twisty roads is a potentially lethal combination... And that isn't limited to the rider on that bike...
11-07-2011 | 09:18 AM
#6
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 288
From: Rosedale Maryland
My usual program is to ride with those I know, but if someone is new, I don't take any responsibility for them. In other words, ride your pace or fall off. If you don't know how to handle your bike, it's not my problem. Get lost, fall off, whatever.
11-07-2011 | 09:26 AM
#7
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Joined: Jul 2010
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From: Phoenix, AZ
Haha, dude, you are one empathetic mo'fo'
11-07-2011 | 09:46 AM
#8
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
It's their skin and bones to rash or break, but if they do despite common sense and full gear, I prefer to be around to call an ambulance, and in turn, I'm hoping someone is around to do that if I mess up, or rather, when not if...
I can still have fun, I don't need to push it on the road, I prefer to do that on track... Less moving obstacles to hit, and it's far easier to hit the stationary ones...
11-07-2011 | 09:54 AM
#9
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,689
From: South Lake Tahoe, CA, USA
just out of curiosity, when you meet these lower level/experience riders, do you not ride with them at all or do you basically make sure they are going to take it easy? I ask, because everyone has to start somewhere. I know I am far from experienced and have a lot to learn, but its not like its safe to go ride and build my skill on my own...
Unless you are soemone who is naturally cautious and deliberately taking it slow, group rides with a bunch of experienced sport riders is a quick way to get in over your head.
The reason for this is that you have a natural tendency to stay on the wheel of the rider in front of you. This turns you attention to what he is doing and away from what you are doing. Riding on your own, you have no distractions and can be extremely focused on what you are doing, which is where your head needs to be.
It's far better to not crash, than it is to have someone there to call the ambulance when you do.
11-07-2011 | 11:39 AM
#11
Greenmeansgo!
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How sympathetic you choose to be should be based on more than just altruism (or lack thereof). If the new guy is behind you and comes in hot where you knew to take it easy, what happens? Maybe nothing, maybe he falls and just slides, maybe he ditches into oncoming to avoid hitting you, or maybe he knocks you into oncoming. best case scenario his bike gets damaged, worst case scenario there's a death or two.
Back OT. I have been in a similar situation and beat myself up for a while. That feeling sucks, but it's a good motivator and learning tool for the future. Don't lose more sleep over it, you can play WhatIf forever.
11-07-2011 | 11:47 AM
#12
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Joined: May 2008
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From: San Clemente, CA
Jeez, was he on an F4? My first bike (after riding friends' bikes for years) was a CX500, modded for canyon racing. I had a blast on that bike for 5 years and over 50,000 miles, commuting and riding the canyons, plus 2 trips to Laguna Seca.
Almost 30 years ago, several guys that I rode with regularly met up with some other riders to watch the Daytona 200 at my friend's house. After the race we decided to ride Ortega, which another guy and I thought was not a good idea. About 10 riders total.
I stayed to the back, next to last, as the pack spread out (some of the guys, that I didn't know, were passing on the double yellow with cars coming the other way). I'm doing about 90 in a left hand sweeper when I hear a "CRACK!" behind me. I look in my mirror to see a cloud of dust. One of the guys who had just been riding for a month had gone wide on his new CB1100F. Fortunately he only had a broken wrist (built like a linebacker). Another guy stayed with the fallen rider while I rode ahead to find my friend and another riding buddy (Randy) had pulled over 10 miles ahead, to wait for us to catch up. The rest of the group had gone on. We doubled back, and Randy rode home, 50+ miles, to get his truck for the wadded CB1100F.
The several guys that the crashed rider came with never came back. They rode over the hill, then home. Meanwhile, we waited on the side of the road, for 2 hours in the rain, for Randy to come back with his truck.
nath, I'd say that one of the other guys should have gone ahead to find you, like I did, since you had set the route, and you were unsure if they had turned off. Don't beat yourself up.
My core riding group back then always had a plan that everyone would ride to their ability level and not push it to unsafe limits. The fast guys would periodically pull over to let the others catch up. Twice we had a guy crash on our rides, and each time it was a new guy in the group who tried to keep up.
Almost 30 years ago, several guys that I rode with regularly met up with some other riders to watch the Daytona 200 at my friend's house. After the race we decided to ride Ortega, which another guy and I thought was not a good idea. About 10 riders total.
I stayed to the back, next to last, as the pack spread out (some of the guys, that I didn't know, were passing on the double yellow with cars coming the other way). I'm doing about 90 in a left hand sweeper when I hear a "CRACK!" behind me. I look in my mirror to see a cloud of dust. One of the guys who had just been riding for a month had gone wide on his new CB1100F. Fortunately he only had a broken wrist (built like a linebacker). Another guy stayed with the fallen rider while I rode ahead to find my friend and another riding buddy (Randy) had pulled over 10 miles ahead, to wait for us to catch up. The rest of the group had gone on. We doubled back, and Randy rode home, 50+ miles, to get his truck for the wadded CB1100F.
The several guys that the crashed rider came with never came back. They rode over the hill, then home. Meanwhile, we waited on the side of the road, for 2 hours in the rain, for Randy to come back with his truck.
nath, I'd say that one of the other guys should have gone ahead to find you, like I did, since you had set the route, and you were unsure if they had turned off. Don't beat yourself up.
My core riding group back then always had a plan that everyone would ride to their ability level and not push it to unsafe limits. The fast guys would periodically pull over to let the others catch up. Twice we had a guy crash on our rides, and each time it was a new guy in the group who tried to keep up.
Last edited by VTRsurfer; 11-07-2011 at 11:57 AM.
11-07-2011 | 12:08 PM
#13
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SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 807
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Most people who are new to motorcycling don't know what an MV is.
Affluence is not always your friend. I was a high school student when I started riding in the 60's and was poor as a church mouse. I could afford only smaller, cheaper and slower bikes. Triumph Bonnevilles, BSA Lightnings, Honda 750's were beyond my reach financially. I read a lot of motorcycle magazines, tried to improve my riding and learned to maintain a bike because I couldn't afford to take it to a shop. Now too many people think they have to start with a motorcycle that will impress others. There are lots of reasons why people buy motorcycles but I've yet to hear any new rider say "I bought this bike to help me learn to ride really well."
Affluence is not always your friend. I was a high school student when I started riding in the 60's and was poor as a church mouse. I could afford only smaller, cheaper and slower bikes. Triumph Bonnevilles, BSA Lightnings, Honda 750's were beyond my reach financially. I read a lot of motorcycle magazines, tried to improve my riding and learned to maintain a bike because I couldn't afford to take it to a shop. Now too many people think they have to start with a motorcycle that will impress others. There are lots of reasons why people buy motorcycles but I've yet to hear any new rider say "I bought this bike to help me learn to ride really well."
11-07-2011 | 12:13 PM
#14
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From: San Clemente, CA
11-07-2011 | 12:42 PM
#15
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Joined: Aug 2010
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From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
He made his mistakes on it, learned from those mistakes, and is now stepping up slowly. There is nothing better than dusting a big bike with a smaller one in the twistys.
For the first season, it was pretty much he and I riding together. I know what he is ready for, and this way he won't fall into the group mentality (especially not on a TW.)
The reason for this is that you have a natural tendency to stay on the wheel of the rider in front of you. This turns you attention to what he is doing and away from what you are doing. Riding on your own, you have no distractions and can be extremely focused on what you are doing, which is where your head needs to be.
Nath... brutal about the F4. That's like giving a 16 year old keys to a Ferrari as a first car... that's what? Over a $20,000 mistake right there?
Last edited by matt365; 11-07-2011 at 12:45 PM.
11-07-2011 | 01:03 PM
#17
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Not to sure about that. Gear can be expensive. I paid more for all my gear than I did for my bike. With that said, if you are going to ride aggressively, you need gear, or don't do it. I must admit, for around town stuff, I mostly just throw on my boots, jeans, jacket helmet and gloves. But when I go out for a ride, I am in my 1 piece.
If you are new, and ride your own ride, we can all co-exist happily... And if there are a newer rider along, I'll either dial it down, or at least keep an eye out.
"Everyone rides there own ride. If you can't keep up, don't try, and if I can't keep up with you, wait for me at the next road. If you feel the need to show off, you won't be invited back next time, so be responsible. When we get to a change in roads, we will all wait to make sure everyone has made it there."
Lately, I have been making directions for the two guys I have been riding with lately, and having them tape it on their tanks so they don't get lost.
11-07-2011 | 02:04 PM
#18
Out of my mind, back in 5
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
Not to sure about that. Gear can be expensive. I paid more for all my gear than I did for my bike. With that said, if you are going to ride aggressively, you need gear, or don't do it. I must admit, for around town stuff, I mostly just throw on my boots, jeans, jacket helmet and gloves. But when I go out for a ride, I am in my 1 piece.
Before any ride ever happens when I am lead, and mostly when I am not, there is a briefing. It goes a little something like this.
"Everyone rides there own ride. If you can't keep up, don't try, and if I can't keep up with you, wait for me at the next road. If you feel the need to show off, you won't be invited back next time, so be responsible. When we get to a change in roads, we will all wait to make sure everyone has made it there."
Lately, I have been making directions for the two guys I have been riding with lately, and having them tape it on their tanks so they don't get lost.
Before any ride ever happens when I am lead, and mostly when I am not, there is a briefing. It goes a little something like this.
"Everyone rides there own ride. If you can't keep up, don't try, and if I can't keep up with you, wait for me at the next road. If you feel the need to show off, you won't be invited back next time, so be responsible. When we get to a change in roads, we will all wait to make sure everyone has made it there."
Lately, I have been making directions for the two guys I have been riding with lately, and having them tape it on their tanks so they don't get lost.
For a new rider, a group ride will not be a learning experience in terms of riding... For that, it's a lot better if it's just the two riders... But with the right group, willing and able to dial it down, and follow a pace that works for every one, obviously with some waiting, it's about learning how to ride together... And thats also a part of riding...
Last edited by Tweety; 11-07-2011 at 02:07 PM.
11-07-2011 | 03:16 PM
#19
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From: Gettysburg, Pa
I don't "take responsibility" for them... I take responsibility for my own actions... Ie, I prefer to dial it down a bit, rather than having them fall off trying to follow me...
with the right group, willing and able to dial it down, and follow a pace that works for every one, obviously with some waiting, it's about learning how to ride together... And thats also a part of riding...
with the right group, willing and able to dial it down, and follow a pace that works for every one, obviously with some waiting, it's about learning how to ride together... And thats also a part of riding...
A group ride is just that, a group. IMO blasting off and leaving everyone in the dust defeats the purpose of getting together in the first place. The group rides I participate in the leader keeps everyone in check. If there is a back marker, we all wait to make sure he sees us (or the next rider) @ every turn. We all space out kind of like a bungee, not pulling that slow guy faster than he can go. The ST.N guys don't poke around either. Last ride we flat out hauled the mail. Camaraderie is part of the experience... and it sounds like you were missing it.
On one of their rides 2 years ago, I had a mid-late 40's lady on a 'busa behind me. Unfamiliar road...tightening radius turn... I made it through (crossing the double yellow a little) and she lost the front. I saw her go down in my mirror. The leader (+2 others) noticed people falling off "the pace" and were turned around and on the scene before we could get the bike rubber side down. I felt bad but she had full 1 piece leathers (no serious injuries)and she kept up pretty well for miles before that turn.
Long story short, we're all need to look out for one another. If you wanna do a full on motoGP around your favorite route, do it alone. Just my .02
Being upset just shows that you care and that's a good thing. We're all human and make mistakes. As long as something was learned, move on. Life's too short and nobody lost their life.
11-07-2011 | 05:55 PM
#20
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Superstock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 258
From: Santa Clara, CA
I agree with you about feeling a little bit sorry about having those guys go down; I get a little twinged every time I hear/see anyone on two wheels, we are all brothers on the road, so we have to care about everyone in our family.
In this exact instance I think that it's more of the new riders fault; it doesn't fall upon everyone else in the group to make sure that someone isn't just trying on his "*****" for the first time on an expensive bike. Granted, we should know everyone we're riding with, but I think assuming that someone who rides a MV knows how to ride is somewhat safe.
Everyone makes mistakes when learning how to ride, but also expecting to be able to ride with people who have been riding for years is a little bit absurd. I made sure to point out to everyone that I was a new rider knew that I was just learning how to ride and it turned out really good because when we would go through a highly technical spot in the hills they would pull over a while before the series, instruct me on the best way to ride through it, and then after it and tell me how it went and what could be improved.
I think that we should all dedicate more time to explaining proper riding habits to new riders as not only are we all on the same side (yes, even Harley/cruisers) but every crash gives us a bad name in the eyes of the community, and also hikes all of our insurance rates up.
In terms of gear, I ride in gear that's appropriate for the ride. If I'm commuting to work, I wear boots, jacket (leather or textile pending on weather), armored gloves and helmet. On ride days, head to toe leather, riding boots, interior armor (spine protector, knee guards, and neck brace [sometimes if I'm going for a hard ride]) and armored gauntlet gloves. Everyone should have proper gear for riding; it's just a precaution that you hope you don't have to use.
It's good to hear that everyone is okay at least.
In this exact instance I think that it's more of the new riders fault; it doesn't fall upon everyone else in the group to make sure that someone isn't just trying on his "*****" for the first time on an expensive bike. Granted, we should know everyone we're riding with, but I think assuming that someone who rides a MV knows how to ride is somewhat safe.
Everyone makes mistakes when learning how to ride, but also expecting to be able to ride with people who have been riding for years is a little bit absurd. I made sure to point out to everyone that I was a new rider knew that I was just learning how to ride and it turned out really good because when we would go through a highly technical spot in the hills they would pull over a while before the series, instruct me on the best way to ride through it, and then after it and tell me how it went and what could be improved.
I think that we should all dedicate more time to explaining proper riding habits to new riders as not only are we all on the same side (yes, even Harley/cruisers) but every crash gives us a bad name in the eyes of the community, and also hikes all of our insurance rates up.
In terms of gear, I ride in gear that's appropriate for the ride. If I'm commuting to work, I wear boots, jacket (leather or textile pending on weather), armored gloves and helmet. On ride days, head to toe leather, riding boots, interior armor (spine protector, knee guards, and neck brace [sometimes if I'm going for a hard ride]) and armored gauntlet gloves. Everyone should have proper gear for riding; it's just a precaution that you hope you don't have to use.
It's good to hear that everyone is okay at least.
11-07-2011 | 05:55 PM
#21
Thread Starter
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Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
you guys have provided some good insights and I thank you because i'll be better prepared when this happens again.
69 yrs old and hangin with a bunch of 20yr olds. Lord what's wrong with me? I haven't ridden in groups since the 60-70's. Back then, we basically rode as fast as we could and on Saturdays from bar to bar from morn till we got thrown out after last call, and then tried to make it home. Most of the time we made it somehow. I was very lucky, esp because the first few times i came off, I had NGATT( no gear all the time).haha dumbasses
As time went on, fewer and fewer riders, until I finally figured out that if you wanted to ride, you couldn't be waitin until someone else could go. Consequently, I ride when i want and don't need others to enjoy riding, although i like riding with others if it happens.
I noticed that motorcycling in the northeast seems to go in cycles(really). Guys buy bikes when their friends get into it, then sell them when their friends quit riding. Only a few like me are hardcore and don't care if others ride or not. thankgod for this forum,huh, and i ain't even religious.
I really don't know anyone my age who rides a sportbike in this area and truthfully I haven't been searching. The Therapeutic Support Staff(TSS) who assists my autistic grandson in school asked me to help him pick a bike and so i did and took him under my wing, taught him what i know about street riding and offer help to anyone who needs it and is willing to listen and learn.
The few times i have ridden with a group of guys, i usually tell them like this. I don't have an ego. I'm goin up the road at my pace, you go at your pace. Whoever ends up ahead should stop at any turn off and wait. When I am leading, I will slow over hill crests, for driveways/intersections on curves, and where i know there is the potential for hazard, so be prepared if you are on my ***.
If i am helping some willing learner, i will slow and exaggerate lines, point out hazards, and model what i know and then at fuel stops discuss reasons for and answer questions if they want to know the why of.
I always worry about new riders because of all the stupid **** that can get them before they ever have a chance. As many of you know, the first year or two can be exceptionally hazardous to your health, and after that it's just plain dangerous.
The funny thing about this particular case is that as I was drooling over his MV, the kid says to me, I really can't ride this thing to its potential, and i said, i can't even ride my 650 to its potential so don't feel bad, and then we were on our way.
69 yrs old and hangin with a bunch of 20yr olds. Lord what's wrong with me? I haven't ridden in groups since the 60-70's. Back then, we basically rode as fast as we could and on Saturdays from bar to bar from morn till we got thrown out after last call, and then tried to make it home. Most of the time we made it somehow. I was very lucky, esp because the first few times i came off, I had NGATT( no gear all the time).haha dumbasses
As time went on, fewer and fewer riders, until I finally figured out that if you wanted to ride, you couldn't be waitin until someone else could go. Consequently, I ride when i want and don't need others to enjoy riding, although i like riding with others if it happens.
I noticed that motorcycling in the northeast seems to go in cycles(really). Guys buy bikes when their friends get into it, then sell them when their friends quit riding. Only a few like me are hardcore and don't care if others ride or not. thankgod for this forum,huh, and i ain't even religious.
I really don't know anyone my age who rides a sportbike in this area and truthfully I haven't been searching. The Therapeutic Support Staff(TSS) who assists my autistic grandson in school asked me to help him pick a bike and so i did and took him under my wing, taught him what i know about street riding and offer help to anyone who needs it and is willing to listen and learn.
The few times i have ridden with a group of guys, i usually tell them like this. I don't have an ego. I'm goin up the road at my pace, you go at your pace. Whoever ends up ahead should stop at any turn off and wait. When I am leading, I will slow over hill crests, for driveways/intersections on curves, and where i know there is the potential for hazard, so be prepared if you are on my ***.
If i am helping some willing learner, i will slow and exaggerate lines, point out hazards, and model what i know and then at fuel stops discuss reasons for and answer questions if they want to know the why of.
I always worry about new riders because of all the stupid **** that can get them before they ever have a chance. As many of you know, the first year or two can be exceptionally hazardous to your health, and after that it's just plain dangerous.
The funny thing about this particular case is that as I was drooling over his MV, the kid says to me, I really can't ride this thing to its potential, and i said, i can't even ride my 650 to its potential so don't feel bad, and then we were on our way.
11-07-2011 | 11:34 PM
#23
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 116
From: NSW Australia
I have organised a ride for December and have been a bit worried about this very topic. There will be roughly 30 bikes and I have met about 90% of the folks but it's the "unknowns" that worry me. I am just going to have to make a good speech before departure and remind them "don't try and keep up".
We will be gathering the night before at the pub so I intend to take that opportunity to drive home the point.
As for judging someones experience, I take a sly look at the chicken strips on the bikes. A CBR1000RR with 2 inch strips fills me with dread.
Hey BBB, is that you Boris from Murrumbateman? If it is, I hope you are coming down in Dec.
We will be gathering the night before at the pub so I intend to take that opportunity to drive home the point.
As for judging someones experience, I take a sly look at the chicken strips on the bikes. A CBR1000RR with 2 inch strips fills me with dread.
Hey BBB, is that you Boris from Murrumbateman? If it is, I hope you are coming down in Dec.
Last edited by Fozzy Bear; 11-07-2011 at 11:37 PM.
11-08-2011 | 03:49 AM
#25
Junior Member
Squid
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 10
And something else though...a lot of new riders are scared to say, "Hey! I'm a new rider and am not Mick Doohan's spawn, how should I ride??"
A good pre ride brief should help, as well as who ever brought them talking about spacing, pace, comfort level, etc etc etc. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen.
Nath, did you personally invite the two crash victims? Who did? No way you could have known man, lesson learned, rest easy!
A good pre ride brief should help, as well as who ever brought them talking about spacing, pace, comfort level, etc etc etc. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen.
Nath, did you personally invite the two crash victims? Who did? No way you could have known man, lesson learned, rest easy!
11-08-2011 | 05:05 AM
#26
Thread Starter
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,934
From: altoona, pa
yeah.......when i think back of that brief period when we all just met and then left, with the exotics and the new people, there was a lot of testosterone floating around, and this could easily have affected someone like this.
11-08-2011 | 07:55 AM
#27
Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
From: Durham, NC
Hey Nath,
Glad they were seriously hurt any worst that you said. Tweety's right, don't beat yourself up. I learned a few years ago to tell people where we're going, what the roads are like, and RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE. We will wait at the next intersection or obvious place. Just recently we had a guy ride with us that said he just got back into riding (?, yeah) two rides, two crashes.
Glad they were seriously hurt any worst that you said. Tweety's right, don't beat yourself up. I learned a few years ago to tell people where we're going, what the roads are like, and RIDE YOUR OWN RIDE. We will wait at the next intersection or obvious place. Just recently we had a guy ride with us that said he just got back into riding (?, yeah) two rides, two crashes.
11-08-2011 | 09:32 AM
#28
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,052
From: NYC
This is why I never ride in groups and always warn others to avoid it. The chance of crashing skyrockets in group rides like it or not. Beside the issue of competetive riding, guys forget that other bikes are a real threat and only look at cars.
I will stick to nice safe racing.
I will stick to nice safe racing.
11-08-2011 | 12:21 PM
#29
Member
Squid
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 54
From: Durham, NC
Nath,
Just reread your second post. Glad to know someone older than me riding a sports bike. Thought I had to have one before I got old, now I know I got at least 9 more years. I'll be turning 60 next week. BTW, I've been having a blast on the superhawk and the VTX has learn a few extra tricks. Thanks to all here that give advice and help with questions.
Just reread your second post. Glad to know someone older than me riding a sports bike. Thought I had to have one before I got old, now I know I got at least 9 more years. I'll be turning 60 next week. BTW, I've been having a blast on the superhawk and the VTX has learn a few extra tricks. Thanks to all here that give advice and help with questions.
11-08-2011 | 03:18 PM
#30
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
Yeah there are a few of us old guys who just refuse to act our age, I'm 65.
As for riding in groups... with people I don't know or riders of questionable skills, I'm out. I have no problem going up into the canyons by myself, but since my wife rides as well, we usually go together. I ride at my pace, and she rides at hers. We meet at predetermined stops.
I can't figure guys that go out and buy a bike capable of going straight to the track in the Superbike series, when they have little or no experience. I was lucky to have a very good friend to ride with when I bought my first bike. He mentored me, and I followed. I learned skills and things to watch out for that I use to this day. I passed those on to my wife when she started riding 6 1/2 years ago. She now has almost 50,000 miles under her belt.
As for riding in groups... with people I don't know or riders of questionable skills, I'm out. I have no problem going up into the canyons by myself, but since my wife rides as well, we usually go together. I ride at my pace, and she rides at hers. We meet at predetermined stops.
I can't figure guys that go out and buy a bike capable of going straight to the track in the Superbike series, when they have little or no experience. I was lucky to have a very good friend to ride with when I bought my first bike. He mentored me, and I followed. I learned skills and things to watch out for that I use to this day. I passed those on to my wife when she started riding 6 1/2 years ago. She now has almost 50,000 miles under her belt.
