Racetech gold valve owners - please comment
07-15-2009 | 09:21 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 75
From: Denver
Racetech gold valve owners - please comment
I'm installing gold valves. I have Racetech's recommendations for compression hole size and shim stack. I also have the recommendation of a guy with a lot of experience in VTR suspension to go a bit stiffer; smaller hole, next shim stack or 2 up.
So, what are people's experiences? Do you think Racetech's recommendations are too soft, too stiff, or just right?
If it matters, Racetech recommended 0.84 springs for me, I chose one size down, 0.80, because I'm interested in slanting things slightly toward comfort, instead of performance. I can see an argument that that choice suggests going slightly stiffer on compression damping.
Opinions? The more, the merrier.
So, what are people's experiences? Do you think Racetech's recommendations are too soft, too stiff, or just right?
If it matters, Racetech recommended 0.84 springs for me, I chose one size down, 0.80, because I'm interested in slanting things slightly toward comfort, instead of performance. I can see an argument that that choice suggests going slightly stiffer on compression damping.
Opinions? The more, the merrier.
07-15-2009 | 08:46 PM
#2
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 807
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Hawkrider is the suspension guru. I'd be the first to defer to his opinion.
There are a lot of variables involved. You know your riding style and the use to which you'll put your bike. You're adept enough to do the installation yourself. Why not start with a small hole and follow Racetech's recommendations? Ride it for a bit. Take notes. Figure out what you don't like. Pull the cartridges and make the change.
There are a lot of variables involved. You know your riding style and the use to which you'll put your bike. You're adept enough to do the installation yourself. Why not start with a small hole and follow Racetech's recommendations? Ride it for a bit. Take notes. Figure out what you don't like. Pull the cartridges and make the change.
07-15-2009 | 10:31 PM
#3
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 75
From: Denver
Hawkrider is who I've been talking to, of course.
I wasn't going to revalve at all, just pop in some better springs, but I got a great deal on parts and advice. Hawkrider again (of course). I want to do this once. It's not hard, but you have to get the bike supported, deal with a lot of tiny pieces, be very clean and precise, etc. Thing is, I'm an old coot. I ride like one. As you say, I know myself, and that leads me to believe I'll never see the benefits of a straight performance oriented approach. Max performance is not max comfort. But, too soft ain't comfortable either.
I'm guessing I can't go too wrong. No matter what I do, it will be a significant improvement over the stock overly soft springs, marginal rebound damping, and harsh compression.
Just wanted to see if I could get more info, to go into the mix. I thought there were more people here with gold valves.
I wasn't going to revalve at all, just pop in some better springs, but I got a great deal on parts and advice. Hawkrider again (of course). I want to do this once. It's not hard, but you have to get the bike supported, deal with a lot of tiny pieces, be very clean and precise, etc. Thing is, I'm an old coot. I ride like one. As you say, I know myself, and that leads me to believe I'll never see the benefits of a straight performance oriented approach. Max performance is not max comfort. But, too soft ain't comfortable either.
I'm guessing I can't go too wrong. No matter what I do, it will be a significant improvement over the stock overly soft springs, marginal rebound damping, and harsh compression.
Just wanted to see if I could get more info, to go into the mix. I thought there were more people here with gold valves.
Last edited by Redone; 07-15-2009 at 10:35 PM.
07-16-2009 | 05:23 AM
#4
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
First off, you should go up to the 0.85kg/mm springs.
I'd stick with the RaceTech shim stacks. When I set up forks I generally do not deviate too much from that unless there are special circumstances. For example, if you ride a passenger a lot then I'd bump up the compression by one number. The only time I would go up two numbers is for an expert racer and track-only use. This is the way I set up forks that I do for guys and the results are always positive.
Comfort is a very often misconceived thing. Just because the springs are lower rate does not mean the ride will be more comfortable. Bobbing up and down is really uncomfortable! Getting the bike setup correctly is the way to go.
I'd stick with the RaceTech shim stacks. When I set up forks I generally do not deviate too much from that unless there are special circumstances. For example, if you ride a passenger a lot then I'd bump up the compression by one number. The only time I would go up two numbers is for an expert racer and track-only use. This is the way I set up forks that I do for guys and the results are always positive.
Comfort is a very often misconceived thing. Just because the springs are lower rate does not mean the ride will be more comfortable. Bobbing up and down is really uncomfortable! Getting the bike setup correctly is the way to go.
07-18-2009 | 08:26 AM
#5
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 116
From: NSW Australia
I have 0.95 springs. I specified "normal stiffness" (though at the time,I thought they meant what springs did I have, not what damping I wanted)
They recommended 0.3mm bypass hole and C35 shims. Took a little while to get used to but now feels excellent (especially with a fork brace).
I would say that the Racetech specs were spot on.
The job was technically easy, it was the little stuff that was a pain. Had to order a 0.3mm drill bit and took a while to find a tension wrench that would go down to 2.5 ft lbs (essential for the shim stack nut tension)
They recommended 0.3mm bypass hole and C35 shims. Took a little while to get used to but now feels excellent (especially with a fork brace).
I would say that the Racetech specs were spot on.
The job was technically easy, it was the little stuff that was a pain. Had to order a 0.3mm drill bit and took a while to find a tension wrench that would go down to 2.5 ft lbs (essential for the shim stack nut tension)
07-18-2009 | 11:51 AM
#6
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
I have 0.95 springs. I specified "normal stiffness" (though at the time,I thought they meant what springs did I have, not what damping I wanted)
They recommended 0.3mm bypass hole and C35 shims. Took a little while to get used to but now feels excellent (especially with a fork brace).
I would say that the Racetech specs were spot on.
The job was technically easy, it was the little stuff that was a pain. Had to order a 0.3mm drill bit and took a while to find a tension wrench that would go down to 2.5 ft lbs (essential for the shim stack nut tension)
They recommended 0.3mm bypass hole and C35 shims. Took a little while to get used to but now feels excellent (especially with a fork brace).
I would say that the Racetech specs were spot on.
The job was technically easy, it was the little stuff that was a pain. Had to order a 0.3mm drill bit and took a while to find a tension wrench that would go down to 2.5 ft lbs (essential for the shim stack nut tension)
Do you mean Ø1.3mm? That's a typical bleed drill size for the RaceTech valves.
07-18-2009 | 12:31 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Member
Squid
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 75
From: Denver
I'm now thinking about going with RaceTech's recommended shim stack for me (with 10W oil, to improve rebound damping [I'm also stiffening the rebound stack], it's the relatively soft c31), but going halfway in between race and street for the bleed. That should keep the ride compliant, while slowing brake dive some. It gives me leeway for change, if I don't like this or that.
As always, comments welcomed.
Last edited by Redone; 07-18-2009 at 12:36 PM.
07-18-2009 | 06:14 PM
#8
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,858
From: Fort Wayne, IN
Race Tech recommends 1.3 for street, 1.0 for race.
I'm now thinking about going with RaceTech's recommended shim stack for me (with 10W oil, to improve rebound damping [I'm also stiffening the rebound stack], it's the relatively soft c31), but going halfway in between race and street for the bleed. That should keep the ride compliant, while slowing brake dive some. It gives me leeway for change, if I don't like this or that.
As always, comments welcomed.
I'm now thinking about going with RaceTech's recommended shim stack for me (with 10W oil, to improve rebound damping [I'm also stiffening the rebound stack], it's the relatively soft c31), but going halfway in between race and street for the bleed. That should keep the ride compliant, while slowing brake dive some. It gives me leeway for change, if I don't like this or that.
As always, comments welcomed.
You didn't mention your weight (or I missed it somewhere), but from your original post I'm guessing it's about 155lb. Here is what I would suggest:
1) You can run a c32 stack if you brake really hard (like fistfull kind of hard) often, otherwise go with the c31.
2) Use 5wt, do not use 10w
3) The bleed is only for low speed damping. Go with the Ø1.3mm size and you should be fine.
4) Yes, you will want to stiffen up the shim stack on the stock rebound valves.
09-10-2015 | 03:44 AM
#11
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
You didn't mention your weight (or I missed it somewhere), but from your original post I'm guessing it's about 155lb. Here is what I would suggest:
1) You can run a c32 stack if you brake really hard (like fistfull kind of hard) often, otherwise go with the c31.
2) Use 5wt, do not use 10w
3) The bleed is only for low speed damping. Go with the Ø1.3mm size and you should be fine.
4) Yes, you will want to stiffen up the shim stack on the stock rebound valves.
1) You can run a c32 stack if you brake really hard (like fistfull kind of hard) often, otherwise go with the c31.
2) Use 5wt, do not use 10w
3) The bleed is only for low speed damping. Go with the Ø1.3mm size and you should be fine.
4) Yes, you will want to stiffen up the shim stack on the stock rebound valves.
09-10-2015 | 09:51 AM
#12
Administrator
MotoGP
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,402
From: Kempner, TX
And I know Jamie knows this much better than I...
But in addition to folks choosing too soft of a spring rate, too little compression damping as well, thinking "softer" is better, then getting confused when the bike is harsh over fast bumps....a quick check of suspension travel almost always find the fork is so soft in spring and compression, it is blowing through all of the travel and essentially bottoming out.
When you pay for suspension work, either in house (DMr) or off the shelf kits, you are mostly paying for experience ..yes hard parts as well and of course labor... but the parts can be had from many places, the labor most can pull off...Its the experience in taking the knowns of rider and machine and converting them into a plan for tuning the suspension you are paying for. All that to say, you chose Race Tech to supply your parts and experience. Id start with thier recommendations and then as you gain experience with that set up... you can modify based on your on road observations.
But in addition to folks choosing too soft of a spring rate, too little compression damping as well, thinking "softer" is better, then getting confused when the bike is harsh over fast bumps....a quick check of suspension travel almost always find the fork is so soft in spring and compression, it is blowing through all of the travel and essentially bottoming out.
When you pay for suspension work, either in house (DMr) or off the shelf kits, you are mostly paying for experience ..yes hard parts as well and of course labor... but the parts can be had from many places, the labor most can pull off...Its the experience in taking the knowns of rider and machine and converting them into a plan for tuning the suspension you are paying for. All that to say, you chose Race Tech to supply your parts and experience. Id start with thier recommendations and then as you gain experience with that set up... you can modify based on your on road observations.
09-11-2015 | 02:32 AM
#13
VTR virgin
Superstock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 446
From: Auckland, New Zealand
You definitely need a bleed hole otherwise there's really no low-speed damping bypass.
Why not drill one and leave the shim stack as it is? Good experimental technique, just change one variable at a time.
Personally I use C32 with some DMr compression valves in my VFR with 0.9 springs and rebound Gold Valves, but quite like C33 in the VTR running some Showa 3-port valves with the bleeds machined into the faces, and 0.85 springs. I tried C32 last weekend but wasn't really that happy. This week I've returned to C33 and eased back on the rebound shims on the VTR dropping from 6 down to 3 of the 0.15mm size. JD has suggested that the standard rebound valve is pretty restrictive so doesn't need such a stout stack.
Why not drill one and leave the shim stack as it is? Good experimental technique, just change one variable at a time.
Personally I use C32 with some DMr compression valves in my VFR with 0.9 springs and rebound Gold Valves, but quite like C33 in the VTR running some Showa 3-port valves with the bleeds machined into the faces, and 0.85 springs. I tried C32 last weekend but wasn't really that happy. This week I've returned to C33 and eased back on the rebound shims on the VTR dropping from 6 down to 3 of the 0.15mm size. JD has suggested that the standard rebound valve is pretty restrictive so doesn't need such a stout stack.
09-11-2015 | 02:54 AM
#14
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
You definitely need a bleed hole otherwise there's really no low-speed damping bypass.
Why not drill one and leave the shim stack as it is? Good experimental technique, just change one variable at a time.
Personally I use C32 with some DMr compression valves in my VFR with 0.9 springs and rebound Gold Valves, but quite like C33 in the VTR running some Showa 3-port valves with the bleeds machined into the faces, and 0.85 springs. I tried C32 last weekend but wasn't really that happy. This week I've returned to C33 and eased back on the rebound shims on the VTR dropping from 6 down to 3 of the 0.15mm size. JD has suggested that the standard rebound valve is pretty restrictive so doesn't need such a stout stack.
Why not drill one and leave the shim stack as it is? Good experimental technique, just change one variable at a time.
Personally I use C32 with some DMr compression valves in my VFR with 0.9 springs and rebound Gold Valves, but quite like C33 in the VTR running some Showa 3-port valves with the bleeds machined into the faces, and 0.85 springs. I tried C32 last weekend but wasn't really that happy. This week I've returned to C33 and eased back on the rebound shims on the VTR dropping from 6 down to 3 of the 0.15mm size. JD has suggested that the standard rebound valve is pretty restrictive so doesn't need such a stout stack.
My instructions for the kit said no hole so didnt. Front of the bike is quite harsh so will drop back I think to c32. Thinking I will start with a 1mm hole then go up if needed.
I get a lot of road patter, at night you can see my headlight jiggling as I go down the road.
09-11-2015 | 10:06 PM
#16
VTR virgin
Superstock
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 446
From: Auckland, New Zealand
I just took a spirited ride to Kaiaua and back, returned in the company of a well-ridden KTM 950, and the mighty VTR was not in the least embarrassed on those bumpy roads.
Based on my tinkering to date, the VTR seems damn good with the C33 stack, 5W Motul oil at 120mm, 3 x 0.15 x 17 main shims on the rebound stack and the needles 1 turn out from closed. YMMV. A very good fast road set up.
Based on my tinkering to date, the VTR seems damn good with the C33 stack, 5W Motul oil at 120mm, 3 x 0.15 x 17 main shims on the rebound stack and the needles 1 turn out from closed. YMMV. A very good fast road set up.
09-12-2015 | 02:09 AM
#17
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
09-24-2015 | 01:43 AM
#23
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 932
From: Auckland, new Zealand
12-16-2015 | 12:00 PM
#24
Member
Squid
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 40
I have had several Honda and Kawasaki sport bikes with Race Tech suspension on front and rear over the years and put RT on my low mileage 2005 VTR as soon as I bought it. I have settled on subtracting 30 pounds from my weight when I order from them and it turns out just right for my personal preference and riding. You may be have a different preference than I do. My riding in the central California foothills and mountains is on very winding two lane roads speeds speeds between 30 - 60 mph with lots of curves and pavement is not terrible but does have numerous irregularities. I run 1 tooth smaller front sprocket and 1 tooth larger rear and re-calibrated my speedo with a Heal Tech unit and a GPS.
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