Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
12-05-2005 | 10:19 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
I hate to admit it, but I don't have the bucks for a sweet aftermarket shock. Besides, my bike's got over 40K on it. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to improve the stock shock - can it be rebuilt? If so, at approx what cost?
12-05-2005 | 10:28 AM
#2
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MotoGP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,844
From: Gainesville FLA.
I heard race tech can revalve them but have no idea what it would cost. BTW I'm in the same boat so don't worry. There's a post on here somewhere that has a slightly cheaper aftermarket shock but it's still around $700 only other option is ebay.
12-05-2005 | 10:34 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Yeah, I just check ebay and craig's list. Shocks for the SH are few and far between, and when they do show up it's a frenzy.
I'm wondering what shocks from other bikes would work on the SH? What are the differences, length?
I'll check Race Tech
I'm wondering what shocks from other bikes would work on the SH? What are the differences, length?
I'll check Race Tech
12-05-2005 | 11:42 AM
#5
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MotoGP
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Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
I use the ohlins site for length but it's clunky sometimes and racetech for spring rates. Yes, you can get racetech to rebuild/revalve the stock unit.
As for what's the best alternative beside the big names? Well there's no concensus. The VTR's length is about the longest on a honda so any OEM's are going to need some kind of length modification. Plus is also has one of the heaviest rate springs used. I have found some Kawasaki/Suzuki's are the same length but have a yoke connection.
One forum member said he was going to try to adapt an RC51 unit (a yoke bottom also) but I never heard back from him. I've tried yamaha R1/R6, Duc 748 (all with a much heavier fox spring) and a Penske CBR954 with the penske working best. A stock 929/954 probably won't have enough clearance for its piggyback reservoir.
The VFR is the closest in length and spring rate to the VTR but aren't any better.
Having said all that, I say spend the $$$ and get the real deal. Once you've experience what quality suspension is all about the sting won't be as painful.
As for what's the best alternative beside the big names? Well there's no concensus. The VTR's length is about the longest on a honda so any OEM's are going to need some kind of length modification. Plus is also has one of the heaviest rate springs used. I have found some Kawasaki/Suzuki's are the same length but have a yoke connection.
One forum member said he was going to try to adapt an RC51 unit (a yoke bottom also) but I never heard back from him. I've tried yamaha R1/R6, Duc 748 (all with a much heavier fox spring) and a Penske CBR954 with the penske working best. A stock 929/954 probably won't have enough clearance for its piggyback reservoir.
The VFR is the closest in length and spring rate to the VTR but aren't any better.
Having said all that, I say spend the $$$ and get the real deal. Once you've experience what quality suspension is all about the sting won't be as painful.
12-05-2005 | 11:47 AM
#6
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SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 764
From: Nananimo, B.C.
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
I tried hard to get some numbers about rebuilding my stock shock from Race Tech, email, phone, fax, they never did return my messages. The receptionist said they are too busy. I gave up.
12-05-2005 | 11:53 AM
#7
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MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
WOW, I guess that is what's called a "good problem" but that still sux! I believe their webpage gives ballpark rates for rebuilds/revalves.
Was this recently? I know that suspension places just like seat companies get snowed under ((pun intended) during the "off season".
Was this recently? I know that suspension places just like seat companies get snowed under ((pun intended) during the "off season".
12-05-2005 | 12:16 PM
#8
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SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 764
From: Nananimo, B.C.
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
Very recently. I started emailing about a month ago, no response. Then I left messages, no response, then I talked to a person and told her I've tried 4 times to get through to a tech because their web site says "call us". She said she'll make sure someone gets back to me but that it may take a day or two. That was a couple of weeks ago.
12-05-2005 | 12:23 PM
#9
Hmm?
SuperBike
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 2,069
From: San Gabriel Valley
I went in person to talk to Race Tech, and that helped a lot. They are pretty busy, especially during the race season, but that shouldn't be an issue now it's the off-season.
Try calling them again and see what happens.
A rear spring from RT typically costs $90-100. Gold valves are another $250-300. Ask them if they still have discounts. I was able to pick up a coupon for either fork springs or shock spring at $75, and then 15% off for everything else.
Try calling them again and see what happens.
A rear spring from RT typically costs $90-100. Gold valves are another $250-300. Ask them if they still have discounts. I was able to pick up a coupon for either fork springs or shock spring at $75, and then 15% off for everything else.
12-05-2005 | 03:44 PM
#10
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I went in person to talk to Race Tech, and that helped a lot. They are pretty busy, especially during the race season, but that shouldn't be an issue now it's the off-season.
Try calling them again and see what happens.
A rear spring from RT typically costs $90-100. Gold valves are another $250-300. Ask them if they still have discounts. I was able to pick up a coupon for either fork springs or shock spring at $75, and then 15% off for everything else.
Try calling them again and see what happens.
A rear spring from RT typically costs $90-100. Gold valves are another $250-300. Ask them if they still have discounts. I was able to pick up a coupon for either fork springs or shock spring at $75, and then 15% off for everything else.
List Price: $109.95
Our Price: $98.96
Race Tech REBOUND GOLD VALVE FORK KT
List Price: $159.95
Our Price: $143.96
Race Tech 20X6MM GOLD VALVE FORK KIT
List Price: $159.95
Our Price: $143.96
2 qt US2 @ $22 each
Race Tech Inner fork bushing
List Price: $24.95
Our Price: $22.46
Race Tech Outer fork bushing
List Price: $21.95
Our Price: $19.76
Plus oil seals and outer wiper seals if you need um
That takes care of the forks.
Race Tech does not sell a kit for the shock,,, they will do some limited work on it for you.. but you have to call to get a price.. My bet is,,, it aint worth it, when you can get a new Ohlins 46HRCS for $878 shipped to your door.
12-05-2005 | 03:57 PM
#11
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
From: mtn. home, AR
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
How about Wilbers shocks. They are popular among the Aprilia, Ducati, BMW and other Euro bike riders. Here is an emal I got from a company that sells them.
Thanks for contacting us regarding a shock for your
Honda SuperHawk. Currently there are two shocks
offered for the SuperHawk, the 640 and 641 models. The
640 is a more basic shock offering an upgrade over OEM
stock equipment while the 641 is a premium shock
offering features comparable to most high end shocks.
Both can be fitted with options as listed. Pricing is
as follows:
Model 640 $464 (rebound and preload; internal
reservoir; OAL as specified)
Model 641 $718 (hosed mounted remote res.; Hi/lo
comp, rebound and preload; OAL as specified)
Option 625 $190 (Remote hyd. preload adjustment added)
Option 629 $70 (Variable ride height adjustment)
As you will note the 641 rear shock is a remote
reservoir style and offers high and low speed
compression in addition to rebound - all of which is
standard. All shocks can be ordered to stock OAL or
you may shorten or lengthen at your pleasure. Shipping
is $20 for a single shock. We do require payment in
full at time of order since Wilbers now invoices us
immediately. Credit card are accepted with a 3% charge
and we accept money orders or cashiers checks.
Illinois residents are responsible for state sales
taxes.
Spring rates will be selected based on your riding
style (aggressive, slow, two up, racer, etc.) The
stock OAL is based on factory specs but due to the
higher loaded springs used in the Wilbers shocks
versus the sag and wear of the older springs, the
actual OAL of a new shock can extend overall height by
3-5mm in many cases.
Thanks for your inquiry. Please let us know if we can
offer any other assistance. Stay safe.
Regards,
Bill U'Ren
MotoFanatic
"Motorcycle Performance Tuning"
www.motofanatic.net
Here is a link to Wilbers.
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/
I own an Aprilia and this brand of shock is used alot by the Aprilia owners on Apriliaforums.com. It is made somewhere in Europe so it is well known over there, don't know how long they have been in the U.S.
model640
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image2.html
model 641 with remote res.
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image3.html
model 641 with remote res. and remote preload
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image1.html
Thanks for contacting us regarding a shock for your
Honda SuperHawk. Currently there are two shocks
offered for the SuperHawk, the 640 and 641 models. The
640 is a more basic shock offering an upgrade over OEM
stock equipment while the 641 is a premium shock
offering features comparable to most high end shocks.
Both can be fitted with options as listed. Pricing is
as follows:
Model 640 $464 (rebound and preload; internal
reservoir; OAL as specified)
Model 641 $718 (hosed mounted remote res.; Hi/lo
comp, rebound and preload; OAL as specified)
Option 625 $190 (Remote hyd. preload adjustment added)
Option 629 $70 (Variable ride height adjustment)
As you will note the 641 rear shock is a remote
reservoir style and offers high and low speed
compression in addition to rebound - all of which is
standard. All shocks can be ordered to stock OAL or
you may shorten or lengthen at your pleasure. Shipping
is $20 for a single shock. We do require payment in
full at time of order since Wilbers now invoices us
immediately. Credit card are accepted with a 3% charge
and we accept money orders or cashiers checks.
Illinois residents are responsible for state sales
taxes.
Spring rates will be selected based on your riding
style (aggressive, slow, two up, racer, etc.) The
stock OAL is based on factory specs but due to the
higher loaded springs used in the Wilbers shocks
versus the sag and wear of the older springs, the
actual OAL of a new shock can extend overall height by
3-5mm in many cases.
Thanks for your inquiry. Please let us know if we can
offer any other assistance. Stay safe.
Regards,
Bill U'Ren
MotoFanatic
"Motorcycle Performance Tuning"
www.motofanatic.net
Here is a link to Wilbers.
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/
I own an Aprilia and this brand of shock is used alot by the Aprilia owners on Apriliaforums.com. It is made somewhere in Europe so it is well known over there, don't know how long they have been in the U.S.
model640
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image2.html
model 641 with remote res.
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image3.html
model 641 with remote res. and remote preload
http://wilbersusa.com/wilbers/images...bs/Image1.html
12-05-2005 | 04:07 PM
#13
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
From: mtn. home, AR
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
A friend of mine put the model 641 on his FJR 1300 and loves it, said it is a vast improvement over stock. After he put the shock on he rode his bike from AR to Prudhoe Bay AL and back. The shock is still good although alot of other parts on his bike were'nt. Many broken plastic parts, both wheels bent, brake pads worn out among other things.
12-05-2005 | 04:11 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
Hmm, well the Ohlins type 46HRCS is a remote res and remote adjust design,, and proven to work well. I guess I'm just a scrady cat,, in that I'd rather pay $50 more and use a shock I know works well and is supported very well here in the US,, Vs a shock just slightly cheaper in cost, not as well known (as far as I know) and must not be as well supported, as I've never heard of it before...
12-05-2005 | 05:41 PM
#15
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MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
As I mentioned earlier, the VFR is the closest "cousin" to the VTR in both length (about 20mm shorter, the stock upper mount should have enough slack for this without resorting to modding) and spring rate: 16.4 VTR vs 15.4 VFR. Request a heavier spring than your normal weight for this $533 NEW VFR Ohlins:
http://tinyurl.com/77ob4
And you would have a very nice NEW shock without all the bells and whistles of the top of the line.
YMMV.
http://tinyurl.com/77ob4
And you would have a very nice NEW shock without all the bells and whistles of the top of the line.
YMMV.
12-05-2005 | 05:51 PM
#16
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
From: mtn. home, AR
Yes, Wilbers is well respected in Europe and considered in the same league as ohlins
12-05-2005 | 06:15 PM
#17
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MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
Yeah, I've heard good things on the 'net about them too.
But.... you've got to admit: Wilbers is an incredibly dorky name and has absolutely no "street cred"! :-)
Oh, and while we're throwing out possiblities, let's not forget about ELKA from Canada. They make a "sport shock" model that's in the lower price range too.
But.... you've got to admit: Wilbers is an incredibly dorky name and has absolutely no "street cred"! :-)
Oh, and while we're throwing out possiblities, let's not forget about ELKA from Canada. They make a "sport shock" model that's in the lower price range too.
12-05-2005 | 08:12 PM
#19
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
From: mtn. home, AR
I hope you would'nt base an important expensive suspension component decision on the "coolness" of the company name. Does Ohlins sound "cooler" than Wilbers? Both of these company names probably came from the founder.
12-05-2005 | 08:34 PM
#20
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,844
From: Gainesville FLA.
Jschmidt, what do you know about Hagon? I've seen their adds and they have a distributor where I used to live but I've never really heard anything about them. Are they comparable to WP, Ohlins, and how's their pricing?
And Woodman in superblings defense, you live in the south as well as us. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the name Wilber? Judging from your age in your profile I'm sure you saw a little movie called Deliverence!!
And Woodman in superblings defense, you live in the south as well as us. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the name Wilber? Judging from your age in your profile I'm sure you saw a little movie called Deliverence!!
12-05-2005 | 10:40 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
20mm may seem like a small difference but something tells me that's significant. My bike is a '98 and has about 43K on it. It's worth about 3K at this point. Putting a $800 shock on it is a stretch.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
12-05-2005 | 10:47 PM
#22
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
20mm may seem like a small difference but something tells me that's significant. My bike is a '98 and has about 43K on it. It's worth about 3K at this point. Putting a $800 shock on it is a stretch.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
12-05-2005 | 10:49 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Senior Member
SuperSport
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 562
From: NYC
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
20mm may seem like a small difference but something tells me that's significant. My bike is a '98 and has about 43K on it. It's worth about 3K at this point. Putting a $800 shock on it is a stretch.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
I checked out a local suspension shop called Aftershocks.
http://www.aftershocks-suspension.com/pages/home.htm
Sent an email for some details but haven't heard back yet.
12-06-2005 | 02:49 AM
#24
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 253
From: mtn. home, AR
Jschmidt, what do you know about Hagon? I've seen their adds and they have a distributor where I used to live but I've never really heard anything about them. Are they comparable to WP, Ohlins, and how's their pricing?
And Woodman in superblings defense, you live in the south as well as us. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the name Wilber? Judging from your age in your profile I'm sure you saw a little movie called Deliverence!!
And Woodman in superblings defense, you live in the south as well as us. What's the first thing that comes to mind when you hear the name Wilber? Judging from your age in your profile I'm sure you saw a little movie called Deliverence!!
When I think of Wilbers it brings to mind Mr. Ed, but I would'nt let that influence my opinion of this company.
12-06-2005 | 06:25 AM
#25
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 203
From: Belgium
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
I've got Wilbers nbw, and had Ohlins before , and IMHO I can confirm that at same price range with Ohlins or Penske you will have better shock for real life.
More expensive Ohlins probably better (Ohlins is brilliant shock absorbers, really great), but it will be considerable price step.
Main difference of Wilbers is separate adjustment for low-speed (meaning rod movemen speed) and high speed compression and 22 clicks of adjustment. That means that I have quite comfortable ride, but can push hard in corners.
With Ohlins it was either great race or good comfort. Never both, unless I pay another few hundreds for wide-range separate adjustments.
Name: I might be wrong, but I think it is actually original design and development of Technoflex, VERY respected Dutch company, I think they used Wilbers (Germany) to actually build and sell their products, since Technoflex themselves are miserably bad at sales to general public.
What happened next - do not know, but those 2 companies are at BIG war, since Technoflex claims Wilbers can't sell it as Wilbers etc. etc.
So - call it Technoflex!
Wilbers is actually German company, that sells loads of well known makes, for example - you sure know Hyperpro? That's what Wilbers sells too. May be makes it too...
More expensive Ohlins probably better (Ohlins is brilliant shock absorbers, really great), but it will be considerable price step.
Main difference of Wilbers is separate adjustment for low-speed (meaning rod movemen speed) and high speed compression and 22 clicks of adjustment. That means that I have quite comfortable ride, but can push hard in corners.
With Ohlins it was either great race or good comfort. Never both, unless I pay another few hundreds for wide-range separate adjustments.
Name: I might be wrong, but I think it is actually original design and development of Technoflex, VERY respected Dutch company, I think they used Wilbers (Germany) to actually build and sell their products, since Technoflex themselves are miserably bad at sales to general public.
What happened next - do not know, but those 2 companies are at BIG war, since Technoflex claims Wilbers can't sell it as Wilbers etc. etc.
So - call it Technoflex!
Wilbers is actually German company, that sells loads of well known makes, for example - you sure know Hyperpro? That's what Wilbers sells too. May be makes it too...
12-06-2005 | 06:30 AM
#26
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 203
From: Belgium
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
I've got Wilbers nbw, and had Ohlins before , and IMHO I can confirm that at same price range with Ohlins or Penske you will have better shock for real life.
More expensive Ohlins probably better (Ohlins is brilliant shock absorbers, really great), but it will be considerable price step.
Main difference of Wilbers is separate adjustment for low-speed (meaning rod movemen speed) and high speed compression and 22 clicks of adjustment. That means that I have quite comfortable ride, but can push hard in corners.
With Ohlins it was either great race or good comfort. Never both, unless I pay another few hundreds for wide-range separate adjustments.
Name: I might be wrong, but I think it is actually original design and development of Technoflex, VERY respected Dutch company, I think they used Wilbers (Germany) to actually build and sell their products, since Technoflex themselves are miserably bad at sales to general public.
What happened next - do not know, but those 2 companies are at BIG war, since Technoflex claims Wilbers can't sell it as Wilbers etc. etc.
So - call it Technoflex!
Wilbers is actually German company, that sells loads of well known makes, for example - you sure know Hyperpro? That's what Wilbers sells too. May be makes it too...
More expensive Ohlins probably better (Ohlins is brilliant shock absorbers, really great), but it will be considerable price step.
Main difference of Wilbers is separate adjustment for low-speed (meaning rod movemen speed) and high speed compression and 22 clicks of adjustment. That means that I have quite comfortable ride, but can push hard in corners.
With Ohlins it was either great race or good comfort. Never both, unless I pay another few hundreds for wide-range separate adjustments.
Name: I might be wrong, but I think it is actually original design and development of Technoflex, VERY respected Dutch company, I think they used Wilbers (Germany) to actually build and sell their products, since Technoflex themselves are miserably bad at sales to general public.
What happened next - do not know, but those 2 companies are at BIG war, since Technoflex claims Wilbers can't sell it as Wilbers etc. etc.
So - call it Technoflex!
Wilbers is actually German company, that sells loads of well known makes, for example - you sure know Hyperpro? That's what Wilbers sells too. May be makes it too...
12-06-2005 | 08:00 AM
#27
Moderator
MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
On a more serious note, marketing names are important. Given two products of equal quality/price, most consumers are going to buy that one that "sounds" better. The Chevy Nova is a classic example of a market name go awry in the hispanic markets. Nova translates to "no go" in spanish.
Progressive suspension is supposedly jumping into the sport market too.
12-06-2005 | 08:14 AM
#28
Moderator
MotoGP
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,553
From: South Texas
Re: Next best thing to Penske/Ohlins?
Seriously, that's less than a 1/2 inch. I ran a 45mm spacer for my penske cbr954 shock. I don't know why the VTR needs such a long shock, it's stroke length is about the same as all the others. Maybe Honda found that a lower shock mount (brace) on the frame messed with their "tuned flex" or something? Who knows....I just replaced my penske with a 4500 mile stock unit while I wait on a used ohlins. I had forgotten how poor these things were!
Anyway, you needed a new shock about 20,000-30,000 miles ago! Hell, if anything, get a used low miles stocker for $10 on ebay.
12-06-2005 | 08:49 AM
#29
Senior Member
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 127
From: PA
I couldn't find anything in my Spanish/English dictionary for Wilber, so I guess it's an okay name for a shock. They did list an obscure historical reference to a "Seņor Ed" though 
I had a VFR shock rebuilt by Lindemann Engineering, because it was a cheaper option than an aftermarket shock. I'll go aftermarket this time.
I had a VFR shock rebuilt by Lindemann Engineering, because it was a cheaper option than an aftermarket shock. I'll go aftermarket this time.
12-06-2005 | 08:56 AM
#30
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,844
From: Gainesville FLA.
Mr. ED I forgot about that one! As with superbling I was kidding.
