Yes I didn't specify if it was inside the cylinder because if oil can make it in there is something more to worry about than wheeling. I was refuring to accumulation to the underside of the piston still in the crank case.

Like you said, it's a moot point. If the pick up is in the rear of the pan, oil level is correct, and the light doesn't come on you should still have enough flow to keep it lubbed. Go for it.

 

Kind if.. there are TWO pressure relief valves in the system, one for each pump side...
the oil pressure spec of 85 psi @5,000 RPM is going to be close to the max you see before the pressure relief valves open.

And then there is the fact, regardless of how fast you spin the pump, it will only move so much oil before it cavitates, or is other wise limited in oil moment due to system design.

 

I dont think that was said.. or at least not intended to be understood that way.

Oil in the bottom of the motor (oil pan) can and does slosh around, and or move to the rear of the motor when the front is elevated (wheelie, steep drive way, up hill) .. the point made was so long as the oil pump pick up is still submerged in oil,, the oil FILTER in the front of the motor will still be full,, the oil will not move away from it.

 

I wouldn't recommend doing it for too long... I mean lets be honest, popping a wheelie here and there isn't that big of a deal and harmful for your engine. BUT doing long wheelies is definitely going t ocause a problem... why even risk it..?

 

+1 Totally agree, in addition, if you do have a problem with pressure falling due to the oil sump position, you should look at bikes that have a dry sump instead and you will not have any worries any more!!! Something like the Buell, XR650 and more... Or maybe even a Hardly Sportster

 

Well... So far, after at least three ten mile long wheelies, my engine hasn't suffered any noticeable ill effects... But then again, I doubt the wheelies would be the reason if I kill it, since it lives a hard life with me... Yes, ten miles... Very long straight and wide double lane road... Middle of the night, nobody much around, and I wanted to see if I could... (And yes, it was a couple of years ago last time, and I might have matured a bit since then... But not so much that I wouldn't put it past me to get the idea in my head again...)

But seriously though... Pressurised system or not, there are parts of the oil passages that are questionable in design to begin with, and can probably cause "blind spots" if the oil pressure drops even slightly, so high angle wheelies could most likely cause damage, since the oil might prefer an easier route than the questionable ones...

However, high angle here means above balance point really, and that's not something you ride for an extended period, so it's not an issue really, unless you stand the bike on it's **** and rev it...

So 12'clock wheelies are probably a bad idea... In more ways than one... Other than that... The oil is the least of your worries... Cops, and binning it are more immediate issues to deal with...

 

So much mis-information in this thread. SOOOO MUCH. If you have ample oil pressure, your front cylinder will nor run dry, period. It won't do it any quicker than the rear. PERIOD. End of discussion. When the system is working with 85psi at 5krpm, as long as there is ample oil for the pickup, it WILL make its way to the front cylinder. It WILL get flung to all the parts it needs to be on, because not everything is reliant on pressure to be lubed. Things like wrist pins, chain guides, etc all rely on being splashed with oil. And they will get lubed.

 

Wrist pin is pressure fed oil.. not splashed lubed

 

Not being an *** here, just curious.

Please explain how the wrist pin is pressure fed..... of all my years of working on engines this would be a first...

 

Good catch, and no offense taken... I stand corrected in the term I used

I suppose, it would be more correct to say pressure fed oil is directed at the hole in the rod which is a path to the wrist pin. Common design..

Some may call that splash lubed... But to me, splash lube is an oil slinger on a Briggs and Stratton engine at the crank throwing oil every-ware.

I'll agree .. it's not pressure fed like the crank pin.

 

Even then though the oil passages in the cranks are to feed the main bearings, with out the use of a piston cooling jet (used on diesel engines mainly) there isn't and pressurized flow headed to the top rod or bottom of the piston, the only thing that will make it up there is oil flung off the crank, the reason this isn't needed on gas engines is because the combustion temperatures do not get high enough constitute the use of a piston cooling jet.

That being said, no it is not a splash lubed engine but there are some items that only get lubed by oil slinging from the crank and other moving parts.

Also there really isn't a need for the rod, or wrist pin to be pressure fed because of the fact that the wrist pin doesn't need much oil film between it self and the rod because of its slower speeds. in theory yes the wrist pin could get hotter due to lack of oil slung to it, or even have more wear than normal, but it is uncommon to ever see a wrist pin fail due to it's shear size and grade of metal it is made of the piston, rod, or pin retaining clip (if it's not pressed in) would fail long before the pin itself would.

 

And this is why I take everything you say about your engine knowledge with a grain of salt. You have just enough knowledge to be dangerous.

 

I've seen one, and only one wrist pin failure due to overheating. It was obvious because there was a lot of discoloration. But we never figured out why. The engine was a few years old, so I don't think it was a manufacturing defect.

 

LOL, feel free to ignore my posts... I really could care less... Im secure in my knowledge and experience... and could give a damn what you think about them..
Have a great day.

 

If you had more experience, you would have seen more

I've pulled down many engines, 4 stroke, 2 stroke, auto, truck and motorcycle that had damaged wrist pins / wrist pin bores in the piston due to lack of lube, over heat, oil debris, failed circlips or Teflon buttons.

It's hardly uncommon ... though not common in a serviceable motor that is just worn out.

But hey, you don't trust what I say... so carry on...your just way to educated and experienced to listen to me.