Lonely VTR
03-14-2008 | 02:01 PM
#1
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idiot
Squid
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From: British West Hartlepool
Lonely VTR
Is the Superhawk the only VTR honda have released in the US? As opposed to the SP1/2 I mean. http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/D....jsp#focusHere
03-14-2008 | 03:20 PM
#3
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From: South Texas
Technically, the 250 is the same in name only. 80's technology and was basically 1/2 of a V4 500 interceptor motor cut down the middle.
Most of the world also got the varadero which is the vtr motor detuned with EFI and stuffed in an adventure bike chassis.
The 650 hawkGT from the late 80's/early 90's was the superhawk's predecessor.
Most of the world also got the varadero which is the vtr motor detuned with EFI and stuffed in an adventure bike chassis.
The 650 hawkGT from the late 80's/early 90's was the superhawk's predecessor.
03-14-2008 | 06:20 PM
#4
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Little Rock, AR
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he's asking about the SP1/2 series...
We (the US) also got both the SP1 & 2. American Honda made no differentiation between 1 vs. 2, they were just different model years with the same name: RC51 (a serial # based designation). I think they're identical, with differing paint schemes, to the European SP1 & SP2 for each model year. I believe they changed in 2002 (from SP1 to SP2)?
'Bling is correct about the VTR250, except I think Honda still has a few VTR250 models worldwide. I saw at least one model for Japan or Australia a few years back if memory serves.
We (the US) also got both the SP1 & 2. American Honda made no differentiation between 1 vs. 2, they were just different model years with the same name: RC51 (a serial # based designation). I think they're identical, with differing paint schemes, to the European SP1 & SP2 for each model year. I believe they changed in 2002 (from SP1 to SP2)?
'Bling is correct about the VTR250, except I think Honda still has a few VTR250 models worldwide. I saw at least one model for Japan or Australia a few years back if memory serves.
03-14-2008 | 07:59 PM
#5
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From: Leander TX!!
03-14-2008 | 08:05 PM
#6
Remember stock is BAD!
SuperSport
SuperSport
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 760
From: Jacksonville FL
The RC51 in black is freaking sweet. I am drooling over my keyboard here.
The first time I saw one, a couple of years ago I thought: this would be a perfect "bad guy" bike in a movie. Dark and menacing, with a great sound.
The first time I saw one, a couple of years ago I thought: this would be a perfect "bad guy" bike in a movie. Dark and menacing, with a great sound.
03-15-2008 | 04:09 AM
#7
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idiot
Squid
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From: British West Hartlepool
Ah RC51 now i get it ! http://www.motorbyte.com/mmm/pages/r...review7_00.htm
The last few words of this review i like.
The last few words of this review i like.
03-15-2008 | 04:20 AM
#8
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"like the ninja 250, only cooler" 
For someone who is more in touch with their feminine side.. I'm not sold on the Pink and Purple graphics. At least the Ninja comes in solid colours. No t that it's any cooler. It should read " Like a scooter, but cooler!"
For someone who is more in touch with their feminine side.. I'm not sold on the Pink and Purple graphics. At least the Ninja comes in solid colours. No t that it's any cooler. It should read " Like a scooter, but cooler!"
03-15-2008 | 11:19 AM
#9
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Hold on! The Varradero (XL 100V) had carbs, not EFI! They either had smaller venturis or had smaller jets. But Mikuni carbs, for sure. Also a steel frame and linked brakes. Sort of an adventure-touring afterthought to the Hawk. BTW, kids, take it from me, cause I know. The VTR is a classic! Sure, the RC51 is a great bike, but the Hawk is a classic. It has the right combination of factors to make an all time great bike. Now that I've got a service manual, I can see that the Hawk rates very high on "ease-of-service" which is a factor in making a classic, too!
03-15-2008 | 11:22 AM
#10
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Unfortunately, Honda seems to have dropped the L-twin engine. No doubt due the nefarious machinations of the four-in-line fanatics. At least Suzuki re-iterated the TL-1000 into a couple different models (V-Strom, SV-650) until they sold. Honda should not drop the L-twin.
03-15-2008 | 11:42 AM
#11
Out of my mind, back in 5
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From: Skurup, Sweden
Hold on! The Varradero (XL 100V) had carbs, not EFI! They either had smaller venturis or had smaller jets. But Mikuni carbs, for sure. Also a steel frame and linked brakes. Sort of an adventure-touring afterthought to the Hawk. BTW, kids, take it from me, cause I know. The VTR is a classic! Sure, the RC51 is a great bike, but the Hawk is a classic. It has the right combination of factors to make an all time great bike. Now that I've got a service manual, I can see that the Hawk rates very high on "ease-of-service" which is a factor in making a classic, too!
EEeep!!! wrong agan... next contender...
It had/has both... Older models had smaller carbs and milder cam lobes but basicly the same engine mated to a 5 speed gearbox...
Newer one's are EFI'd...
03-15-2008 | 11:44 AM
#12
Thread Starter
idiot
Squid
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Posts: 18
From: British West Hartlepool
Unfortunately, Honda seems to have dropped the L-twin engine. No doubt due the nefarious machinations of the four-in-line fanatics. At least Suzuki re-iterated the TL-1000 into a couple different models (V-Strom, SV-650) until they sold. Honda should not drop the L-twin.
03-16-2008 | 12:36 PM
#14
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RVT1000R production stopped in 2005, but the last model year was 2006... bascially left over 2005's.
VTR1000F Production stopped in 2005.
03-16-2008 | 03:52 PM
#15
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Technically, the 250 is the same in name only. 80's technology and was basically 1/2 of a V4 500 interceptor motor cut down the middle.
Most of the world also got the varadero which is the vtr motor detuned with EFI and stuffed in an adventure bike chassis.
The 650 hawkGT from the late 80's/early 90's was the superhawk's predecessor.
Most of the world also got the varadero which is the vtr motor detuned with EFI and stuffed in an adventure bike chassis.
The 650 hawkGT from the late 80's/early 90's was the superhawk's predecessor.
03-16-2008 | 04:25 PM
#16
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Little Rock, AR
A LOT of Hawk GT riders complained about power during its 4yr "run" in the US. It is a superb handling machine, with many innovations for its time. Many Hawk riders believe that the SuperHawk was Honda's direct response to those complaints....especially when a loosely based racing version of the SuperHawk (the RC51) was released to compete in Superbike series around the world, at nearly the same time. A lot of Hawk riders raced them, and MANY have won championships (at several levels of racing).
There may be few physical similarities, but many "spiritual" similarities....torque-oriented power curve, light weight, chassis designed for handling/comfort balance, relatively low cost, tons of aftermarket parts, etc. Those of us who've owned Hawks & Super Hawks can tell, even if others can't.
I've even called the RC series the "Super Duper Hawk". I think this is a topic on another thread, though (https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14019) they're using "SuperChicken" to describe the SuperHawk.
There may be few physical similarities, but many "spiritual" similarities....torque-oriented power curve, light weight, chassis designed for handling/comfort balance, relatively low cost, tons of aftermarket parts, etc. Those of us who've owned Hawks & Super Hawks can tell, even if others can't.
I've even called the RC series the "Super Duper Hawk". I think this is a topic on another thread, though (https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14019) they're using "SuperChicken" to describe the SuperHawk.
03-16-2008 | 05:01 PM
#17
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A LOT of Hawk GT riders complained about power during its 4yr "run" in the US. It is a superb handling machine, with many innovations for its time. Many Hawk riders believe that the SuperHawk was Honda's direct response to those complaints....especially when a loosely based racing version of the SuperHawk (the RC51) was released to compete in Superbike series around the world, at nearly the same time. A lot of Hawk riders raced them, and MANY have won championships (at several levels of racing).
There may be few physical similarities, but many "spiritual" similarities....torque-oriented power curve, light weight, chassis designed for handling/comfort balance, relatively low cost, tons of aftermarket parts, etc. Those of us who've owned Hawks & Super Hawks can tell, even if others can't.
I've even called the RC series the "Super Duper Hawk". I think this is a topic on another thread, though (https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14019) they're using "SuperChicken" to describe the SuperHawk.
There may be few physical similarities, but many "spiritual" similarities....torque-oriented power curve, light weight, chassis designed for handling/comfort balance, relatively low cost, tons of aftermarket parts, etc. Those of us who've owned Hawks & Super Hawks can tell, even if others can't.
I've even called the RC series the "Super Duper Hawk". I think this is a topic on another thread, though (https://www.superhawkforum.com/forum...ad.php?t=14019) they're using "SuperChicken" to describe the SuperHawk.
03-16-2008 | 08:44 PM
#19
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 442
From: Little Rock, AR
Lift,
I agree about the connections being a stretch...but they're there. I haven't read Inderocker's link, but I know what it'll say about the VR980. I saw pics of those online when they came out in 97/98. As a longtime HawkGT owner, I saw the complaints of owners (on the Hawklist) in the 90's. The Hawk was a "parts bin creation", mostly to keep the price low. It debuted the ProArm swingarm & frame (for the street), DEFINITELY not a "bin" part. The bike won races, LOTS of them. It still does (in vintage classes). It single-handedly launched aftermarket companies (for race parts)...yes, they've died or moved on to other bikes/parts, but most still sell Hawk parts (20 years later). Look at track days, you'll still see them there (20 years later).
I agree about sales in the US market, Honda is in business to make $$ and they move on, but Honda is a deeply traditional company (as most Japanese companies). I loves its traditions (especially in model naming), and it has shown this tendancy over the longterm. They really hold to some names...look at the use of the Hawk name over the last 40 years, and the use of RC designations for its race bikes. Honda's used them again & again. The continuous designation of CB (something, even with R or RR after it) has been in use since the 60's. Even in their 4-wheeled division, they cling to names. The Civic has been continuously sold since 1973, and Accords since the late 70's (I'm waiting for the a new Prelude). Sure, they change them but always maintain the names.
BTW, I think it unlikely they'll discontinue the VFR....the original VF was a revolutionary bike for Honda, and the V-four design has inherent advantages, they'll update it. It's been a continuous model since 1983/4.
Just my 2 cents......from someone who currently owns 4 Hondas (3 'bikes & a car), and has owned several more over the past 30 years. When they release a Hybrid Odyssey, I'll probably have one of those too.
Dals
I agree about the connections being a stretch...but they're there. I haven't read Inderocker's link, but I know what it'll say about the VR980. I saw pics of those online when they came out in 97/98. As a longtime HawkGT owner, I saw the complaints of owners (on the Hawklist) in the 90's. The Hawk was a "parts bin creation", mostly to keep the price low. It debuted the ProArm swingarm & frame (for the street), DEFINITELY not a "bin" part. The bike won races, LOTS of them. It still does (in vintage classes). It single-handedly launched aftermarket companies (for race parts)...yes, they've died or moved on to other bikes/parts, but most still sell Hawk parts (20 years later). Look at track days, you'll still see them there (20 years later).
I agree about sales in the US market, Honda is in business to make $$ and they move on, but Honda is a deeply traditional company (as most Japanese companies). I loves its traditions (especially in model naming), and it has shown this tendancy over the longterm. They really hold to some names...look at the use of the Hawk name over the last 40 years, and the use of RC designations for its race bikes. Honda's used them again & again. The continuous designation of CB (something, even with R or RR after it) has been in use since the 60's. Even in their 4-wheeled division, they cling to names. The Civic has been continuously sold since 1973, and Accords since the late 70's (I'm waiting for the a new Prelude). Sure, they change them but always maintain the names.
BTW, I think it unlikely they'll discontinue the VFR....the original VF was a revolutionary bike for Honda, and the V-four design has inherent advantages, they'll update it. It's been a continuous model since 1983/4.
Just my 2 cents......from someone who currently owns 4 Hondas (3 'bikes & a car), and has owned several more over the past 30 years. When they release a Hybrid Odyssey, I'll probably have one of those too.
Dals
03-17-2008 | 06:10 AM
#20
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Posts: 112
Lift,
I agree about the connections being a stretch...but they're there. I haven't read Inderocker's link, but I know what it'll say about the VR980. I saw pics of those online when they came out in 97/98. As a longtime HawkGT owner, I saw the complaints of owners (on the Hawklist) in the 90's. The Hawk was a "parts bin creation", mostly to keep the price low. It debuted the ProArm swingarm & frame (for the street), DEFINITELY not a "bin" part. The bike won races, LOTS of them. It still does (in vintage classes). It single-handedly launched aftermarket companies (for race parts)...yes, they've died or moved on to other bikes/parts, but most still sell Hawk parts (20 years later). Look at track days, you'll still see them there (20 years later).
I agree about sales in the US market, Honda is in business to make $$ and they move on, but Honda is a deeply traditional company (as most Japanese companies). I loves its traditions (especially in model naming), and it has shown this tendancy over the longterm. They really hold to some names...look at the use of the Hawk name over the last 40 years, and the use of RC designations for its race bikes. Honda's used them again & again. The continuous designation of CB (something, even with R or RR after it) has been in use since the 60's. Even in their 4-wheeled division, they cling to names. The Civic has been continuously sold since 1973, and Accords since the late 70's (I'm waiting for the a new Prelude). Sure, they change them but always maintain the names.
BTW, I think it unlikely they'll discontinue the VFR....the original VF was a revolutionary bike for Honda, and the V-four design has inherent advantages, they'll update it. It's been a continuous model since 1983/4.
Just my 2 cents......from someone who currently owns 4 Hondas (3 'bikes & a car), and has owned several more over the past 30 years. When they release a Hybrid Odyssey, I'll probably have one of those too.
Dals
I agree about the connections being a stretch...but they're there. I haven't read Inderocker's link, but I know what it'll say about the VR980. I saw pics of those online when they came out in 97/98. As a longtime HawkGT owner, I saw the complaints of owners (on the Hawklist) in the 90's. The Hawk was a "parts bin creation", mostly to keep the price low. It debuted the ProArm swingarm & frame (for the street), DEFINITELY not a "bin" part. The bike won races, LOTS of them. It still does (in vintage classes). It single-handedly launched aftermarket companies (for race parts)...yes, they've died or moved on to other bikes/parts, but most still sell Hawk parts (20 years later). Look at track days, you'll still see them there (20 years later).
I agree about sales in the US market, Honda is in business to make $$ and they move on, but Honda is a deeply traditional company (as most Japanese companies). I loves its traditions (especially in model naming), and it has shown this tendancy over the longterm. They really hold to some names...look at the use of the Hawk name over the last 40 years, and the use of RC designations for its race bikes. Honda's used them again & again. The continuous designation of CB (something, even with R or RR after it) has been in use since the 60's. Even in their 4-wheeled division, they cling to names. The Civic has been continuously sold since 1973, and Accords since the late 70's (I'm waiting for the a new Prelude). Sure, they change them but always maintain the names.
BTW, I think it unlikely they'll discontinue the VFR....the original VF was a revolutionary bike for Honda, and the V-four design has inherent advantages, they'll update it. It's been a continuous model since 1983/4.
Just my 2 cents......from someone who currently owns 4 Hondas (3 'bikes & a car), and has owned several more over the past 30 years. When they release a Hybrid Odyssey, I'll probably have one of those too.
Dals
03-17-2008 | 11:03 AM
#21
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Agreed, the VTR was a response to the Ducati 916/996, and RVT a response to the 998/999. I do hope that Honda will soon have a response for the 1098!
Last edited by inderocker; 03-17-2008 at 12:14 PM.
03-17-2008 | 05:23 PM
#22
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Superstock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 442
From: Little Rock, AR
Lift,
I agree whole-heartedly.......I don't mean to lecture, or get on the soapbox (too much). I seem to be surrounded by too many Harley guys who think we're "ricers" and have no idea of the traditions of riding. We know they're wrong at least.
Honda seems a bit "dual-minded" to me where this is concerned, though. The VTR has stayed around for a long time, as have the Hawk and VFR...even past its marketing successes (kinda) and those of its competitors. Maybe I'm jaded, but I like to think this is Honda's attempt to maintain some company traditions also?
Who says they're obsolete? How many guys can keep up with you in the twisties, then ride 250-500 miles in relative comfort? Nobody on a GSXR, CBR, R1/6, or ZXR I'll wager (OK, so we'll be stopping for gas more frequently)
A new competitor for the 1098 would be interesting.
Andy
I agree whole-heartedly.......I don't mean to lecture, or get on the soapbox (too much). I seem to be surrounded by too many Harley guys who think we're "ricers" and have no idea of the traditions of riding. We know they're wrong at least.
Honda seems a bit "dual-minded" to me where this is concerned, though. The VTR has stayed around for a long time, as have the Hawk and VFR...even past its marketing successes (kinda) and those of its competitors. Maybe I'm jaded, but I like to think this is Honda's attempt to maintain some company traditions also?
Who says they're obsolete? How many guys can keep up with you in the twisties, then ride 250-500 miles in relative comfort? Nobody on a GSXR, CBR, R1/6, or ZXR I'll wager (OK, so we'll be stopping for gas more frequently)
A new competitor for the 1098 would be interesting.
Andy
05-29-2008 | 02:08 PM
#23
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Squid
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 6
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think he's asking about the SP1/2 series...
We (the US) also got both the SP1 & 2. American Honda made no differentiation between 1 vs. 2, they were just different model years with the same name: RC51 (a serial # based designation). I think they're identical, with differing paint schemes, to the European SP1 & SP2 for each model year. I believe they changed in 2002 (from SP1 to SP2)?
'Bling is correct about the VTR250, except I think Honda still has a few VTR250 models worldwide. I saw at least one model for Japan or Australia a few years back if memory serves.
We (the US) also got both the SP1 & 2. American Honda made no differentiation between 1 vs. 2, they were just different model years with the same name: RC51 (a serial # based designation). I think they're identical, with differing paint schemes, to the European SP1 & SP2 for each model year. I believe they changed in 2002 (from SP1 to SP2)?
'Bling is correct about the VTR250, except I think Honda still has a few VTR250 models worldwide. I saw at least one model for Japan or Australia a few years back if memory serves.
the sp1 and 2 are rc51 models. sp1 us carbuereted and sp2 is fuel injected. like first gen second gen type thing
05-29-2008 | 03:02 PM
#25
Duc Hawk
SuperSport
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 691
From: Malibu's canyons
I'd like to see Honda's reaction to the KTM RC8 instead of the 1098. Spot on chasis and handling with adjustable inputs! I know Honda can do it. In a way all the reviews I read about the RC8 remind me of a bigger, badder and better Honda Hawk GT (NT650) as its also a narrow angle vee with great handling that you ride in not on.
Last edited by Moto Man; 05-29-2008 at 03:09 PM.
05-29-2008 | 05:26 PM
#26
Out of my mind, back in 5
MotoGP
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Posts: 6,109
From: Skurup, Sweden
05-29-2008 | 07:16 PM
#28
OUCH... MY A$$ HURTS!!!
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 707
From: Elba, Ny
CAN I PLAY TOO??????????????????????????
Ok.... So, I'm not expert at all, but we can pretend right?
Seriously though... I just read through all the Hawk GT to SuperHawk talk, and have a question..
Its said above that there was a 7yr gap between the last production of the Hawk GT, and the inception of the SuperHawk... is that correct?
Assuming we are talking about US model's I think... My question is, was the gap narrowed in other country's...
Often time's things are available in other country's that are not available in the US... (my 1st gen Frontier for instance stopped in US after 04, but in Mexico is still a current model)... Anyway... What was the last year that Honda in general (in any Country) offered the Hawk GT or similar model, and what was the first year that Honda (in any Country) offered the SuperHawk or Firestorm (or any other tag name for this bike)....
With those things considered, was there still a 7yr gap? or did the US just not have these models all the years?
Seriously though... I just read through all the Hawk GT to SuperHawk talk, and have a question..
Its said above that there was a 7yr gap between the last production of the Hawk GT, and the inception of the SuperHawk... is that correct?
Assuming we are talking about US model's I think... My question is, was the gap narrowed in other country's...
Often time's things are available in other country's that are not available in the US... (my 1st gen Frontier for instance stopped in US after 04, but in Mexico is still a current model)... Anyway... What was the last year that Honda in general (in any Country) offered the Hawk GT or similar model, and what was the first year that Honda (in any Country) offered the SuperHawk or Firestorm (or any other tag name for this bike)....
With those things considered, was there still a 7yr gap? or did the US just not have these models all the years?
05-29-2008 | 07:19 PM
#29
OUCH... MY A$$ HURTS!!!
SuperSport
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 707
From: Elba, Ny
WOW...
So being guilty of not knowing anything about the Hawk GT, I just used my dear friend google to find pictures of them....
and yes...
WOW, what a sexy bike for the years it was available... I want one... They are actually pretty bad ***
So being guilty of not knowing anything about the Hawk GT, I just used my dear friend google to find pictures of them....
and yes...
WOW, what a sexy bike for the years it was available... I want one... They are actually pretty bad ***
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