Impressed!!!
#1
Impressed!!!
Went out for a nice ride today. Wife on her bike and me on mine. Opened up the Hawk 2x's. First got it up to 140 mph second time ran it up to 150 mph on the speedo. Meant to turn on my GPS app on my phn that shows and records actual speed. I will remember next time. All in all bike ran great and at 150 was still pulling hard, dont know were I was on the tach so I dont know how much it had left.
#2
Glad to hear it's running well. I've had mine redlined in 3rd at 115, and I've been up to 135 before I ran out of road. Our bikes don't have enough HP to pull redline in 6th, from what I've heard. 5th gear would be best for a top speed run to redline... only on a closed course and under approved safety conditions, of course.
#3
I was on a back road that was 27 miles of nothing but open road. Both runs were from a 55 mph roll from 3rd gear. The 150 run I hit 6th gear and from a quick glance I was coming up on red line but then looked at the speedo and saw I hit the 150 mark and shut it down. Not to mention I had to wait a mile for my wife to catch up.....LOL.
Im thinking I can hit red line in 6th with enough road. And yes V the bike is running good. Still a little lean on the low end and could use the screws turned out a 1/4 turn, butit is better and with the proper mains in it I feel they are helping. Oh and yesterday and today were much cooler and nice for making HP!!!!
Im thinking I can hit red line in 6th with enough road. And yes V the bike is running good. Still a little lean on the low end and could use the screws turned out a 1/4 turn, butit is better and with the proper mains in it I feel they are helping. Oh and yesterday and today were much cooler and nice for making HP!!!!
#4
I got mine up to 158 on my gps Sunday. I was in 6th still pulling, only slowed because it was getting hard to hold on. I'm sure I could have got her up to 165 maybe, although I had a slight tail wind. Even with a lean mixture and being 16 years old, I'm still amazed.
#5
At 27 and not even getting close to 150 I love this bike! The feeling from 4K up in any gear is awesome.
#6
Dont think age has anything to do with it...LOL . Gonna be 46 in June. We are going for another ride today but there wont be any place in our travels today for some high speed blasts again. Good to know the Hawk has got some under the hood, even in stock form with minor tweeks.
#7
The true top speed of a SH in in the 155-159 range. At these speeds the speedo will be buried well past the 180 mark.
If you go to a site like this one: Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
It will tell you that the bike is capable of a 183 mph top speed but the leave out tire slip.
The last time I brought this up, there were more than a few "disbelievers" but it is very real.
The easiest way to understand it is to understand that in order for the rear tire to drive the bike forward it must generate traction. The way it makes traction is to create friction. This is done by the rear tire\wheel spinning at a slightly faster speed then you are moving.
This is also why the center of the rear tire wears out first. If the wear was caused just by the tire rolling over the road, then the front should wear in the same pattern at close to the same rate. I say this because even though it has slightly less weight on it, it also has a smaller contact patch.
So with a completely stock bike (well at least a '98 as I haven't done it on a later model bike) you can not pull to the rev limiter (not to be confused with the red line on the tach) but runs out of steam at around 9800 RPM.
Drop a little weight, get the carbs dialed and lighten the flywheel and then it will pull to the 10,300 rev limiter in 6th even with the stock 16\41 gearing....been there & done that
If you go to a site like this one: Gearing Commander: Motorcycle Speed, RPM, Chain & Sprockets Calculator
It will tell you that the bike is capable of a 183 mph top speed but the leave out tire slip.
The last time I brought this up, there were more than a few "disbelievers" but it is very real.
The easiest way to understand it is to understand that in order for the rear tire to drive the bike forward it must generate traction. The way it makes traction is to create friction. This is done by the rear tire\wheel spinning at a slightly faster speed then you are moving.
This is also why the center of the rear tire wears out first. If the wear was caused just by the tire rolling over the road, then the front should wear in the same pattern at close to the same rate. I say this because even though it has slightly less weight on it, it also has a smaller contact patch.
So with a completely stock bike (well at least a '98 as I haven't done it on a later model bike) you can not pull to the rev limiter (not to be confused with the red line on the tach) but runs out of steam at around 9800 RPM.
Drop a little weight, get the carbs dialed and lighten the flywheel and then it will pull to the 10,300 rev limiter in 6th even with the stock 16\41 gearing....been there & done that
#8
Hawk, Interesting to know and nice info on the web site. Looks like I have a goal to work towards......maybe. I guess Im impressed with this big V twins get up and go. Most of my riding thus far has been city/hwy and yesterday was the first day I was able to open er up and and hold er open without fear of uncoming traffic.
#9
That's an interesting theory Hawk. I'm not going to call BS on it but you've peaked my interest. Do you have any other info you can point us to on this topic for those who would like to research it more? A 30 mph difference in "tire slip" seems unlikely but I'd like to hear more on it. And maybe some hard data to back it up.
#10
That's an interesting theory Hawk. I'm not going to call BS on it but you've peaked my interest. Do you have any other info you can point us to on this topic for those who would like to research it more? A 30 mph difference in "tire slip" seems unlikely but I'd like to hear more on it. And maybe some hard data to back it up.
#11
I know mine is off 3-4 mph at 80mph, I have also been told that the faster you go the speedo tend to be off more. Maybe I misunderstood that one. Also I hope I didnt open up a can of worms and start a big debate.
#12
I did an indicated 147 at cal speedway, that's good enough for me...you guys are crazy.
the reading seemed on par with what other bikes I was following were getting to at that part of the banking.
the reading seemed on par with what other bikes I was following were getting to at that part of the banking.
#13
5%-10% would be 9-18 mph. So I guess that'd mean the tire was slipping 10-20mph. Still seems a bit odd to me. If you consider an object takes X amount of force to move when it's stationary, however it takes Y amount of force to move once it's moving and Y is always a lot less than X if it were slipping that much you'd think it would just go up in smoke. Much like if you were doing a stationary burn off it takes a lot of brake force fron the front to get the tire spinning. However once it's spinning it doesn't take much force at all to hold the bike stationary.
Again not being a na sayer per se. Just would love to see some more info on this.
As for the speedo being off at higher speeds yes due to it being all about gearing if it's off say 5 mph at 50 it'll be off 10 mph at 100. It goes by a percentage, not a set amount. I guess one way to test this theory is with a GPS showing actual speeds and track the percentage off. If the percentage of being off isn't linier then there is something else to account for which would probably be the tire slippage.
Again not being a na sayer per se. Just would love to see some more info on this.
As for the speedo being off at higher speeds yes due to it being all about gearing if it's off say 5 mph at 50 it'll be off 10 mph at 100. It goes by a percentage, not a set amount. I guess one way to test this theory is with a GPS showing actual speeds and track the percentage off. If the percentage of being off isn't linier then there is something else to account for which would probably be the tire slippage.
#14
#15
Yep, my speedo has been GPS verified to be off by ~7%, whereas the Odo is spot on. I've had my SuperHawk up to an indicated 150 on the back roads. That's close to 140. Didn't have my GPS tracking me then. Ran out of road and had to shut 'er down.
#16
I disagree with the wheel spin theory, btw...no offense meant to you hawk, but as far as I'm concerned that's just plain wrong.
If your tire was spinning 30mph faster than the bike was traveling it would be constantly be trying to push the rear ahead of the front (and your rear would be sliding everywhere as a result).
The physics of what you're suggesting aren't necessarily wrong, just that they aren't the reason for the difference in indicated speed and actual speed.
If your tire was spinning 30mph faster than the bike was traveling it would be constantly be trying to push the rear ahead of the front (and your rear would be sliding everywhere as a result).
The physics of what you're suggesting aren't necessarily wrong, just that they aren't the reason for the difference in indicated speed and actual speed.
#17
I've seen you say your odo is on but speedo is off and I'm just not quite sure how that works being they are both coming from the same signal. I'm thinking the odo may be on at a given speed but varys with higher speeds when you're not looking at it so much?
BC that's what I'm thinking. But I'm not going to call BS until I see more proof one way or the other.
BC that's what I'm thinking. But I'm not going to call BS until I see more proof one way or the other.
#18
Total theory on my part, and I'm sure someone else has more than this, but I have always thought ODO and speedo were different for legal reasons...
For instance if speedos even read 1mph slower than actual speed (radar gun), then Honda may have lawsuits on their hands. In other words, if my bike says I'm doing 79 in a 60, and a cop gets me doing 80 or 81, now I have a criminal ticket on my hands rather than a misdemeanor. And I could claim Honda were at fault b/c I thought I was doing 79. So they play it safe and whatever algorithms that they use to calculate the RPM to indicated speed generally err on the fast side.
And vice versa, if the odo is way off, I wouldn't want to buy/sell a bike that underestimated the amount of miles on the motor. If the ODO is 10% off, I would be buying a bike that says 20K miles but actually has 22k miles on it. Not as big of a deal, but enough to make the calculations more accurate. Especially for service intervals, etc...
I made that all up b/c I couldn't find a better explanation for it.
BTW, canada, I don't think 8541Hawk is claiming that tire slippage accounts for ALL of the difference in speed, just that it's a factor (combined with an inaccurate speedo)
For instance if speedos even read 1mph slower than actual speed (radar gun), then Honda may have lawsuits on their hands. In other words, if my bike says I'm doing 79 in a 60, and a cop gets me doing 80 or 81, now I have a criminal ticket on my hands rather than a misdemeanor. And I could claim Honda were at fault b/c I thought I was doing 79. So they play it safe and whatever algorithms that they use to calculate the RPM to indicated speed generally err on the fast side.
And vice versa, if the odo is way off, I wouldn't want to buy/sell a bike that underestimated the amount of miles on the motor. If the ODO is 10% off, I would be buying a bike that says 20K miles but actually has 22k miles on it. Not as big of a deal, but enough to make the calculations more accurate. Especially for service intervals, etc...
I made that all up b/c I couldn't find a better explanation for it.
BTW, canada, I don't think 8541Hawk is claiming that tire slippage accounts for ALL of the difference in speed, just that it's a factor (combined with an inaccurate speedo)
Last edited by 7moore7; 04-26-2012 at 03:40 PM.
#21
I've always thought this, as well as for bragging rights. Every motorcycle I have ridden has read fast on the speedo, cable or digital. It's not like it's hard to get right anymore with the digital technology, I mean, cars don't do it. I really believe it is intentional.
#22
Understood. Get out your GPS, iPhone or whatever, stick it in your tank bag. Zero your trip odometer after filling your tank with gas. Turn on your GPS tracking App. Go ride 100 miles. Compare. If your gearing is stock, there should be less than 1% (one mile) difference. It's very repeatable. It also will change a bit from a fresh rear tire to a flattened, bald one.
During your ride, run it up to some safe speed you can hold for a minute, look at your GPS tracking App's speed indicator and compare to your speedo, they won't be the same, and they will differ linearly as your speed increases. Mine does by about 7%, at 85 indicated I'm only traveling around 80mph. At 43, I'm doing around 40, etc.
Let us know what your results are.
During your ride, run it up to some safe speed you can hold for a minute, look at your GPS tracking App's speed indicator and compare to your speedo, they won't be the same, and they will differ linearly as your speed increases. Mine does by about 7%, at 85 indicated I'm only traveling around 80mph. At 43, I'm doing around 40, etc.
Let us know what your results are.
#23
most cars read higher as well actually, particularly german ones.
GM has probably the most accurate speedometer readings, and even they are a tad high
GM has probably the most accurate speedometer readings, and even they are a tad high
#24
I think my Maxima was real close if I remember correctly. I'm gonna have to go find out tonight, lol. I'll check it at 60 and at 130!
#26
Well there is only one sensor for speed so it's getting the signal for both from that one place. So they have to be tied together. I think the gearing was changed on mine because it seemed to read really fast like 10mph + at 70. I'll know more once I get it back on the road and check it with my GPS speedo on my phone.
If you did make that trip and you had any length of time at high speeds where the tire slip theory would be happening then it would show the odo was off. If it is showing the odo is the accurate and it's also accurate at the slower speeds then that would dissprove the tire slip theory.
If you did make that trip and you had any length of time at high speeds where the tire slip theory would be happening then it would show the odo was off. If it is showing the odo is the accurate and it's also accurate at the slower speeds then that would dissprove the tire slip theory.
#27
I agree with ya there (there is only one signal) but that doesn't mean that it doesn't use a different calculation for speed and ODO once that sensor goes into the ECU...
#28
I guess. I just don't see the point. They both need the same reading and if they used different calculations then one would definitely always be off. I'm pretty sure they get the same signal and are tied together.
#29
See my hypothesis above
Governing bodies regulate how much a speedo can be off. For instance, looking into it quickly a passenger vehicle may NEVER read lower than actual speed in Europe, regardless of tire size and pressure! Speedometer Scandal! - Feature - Car and Driver
So, in theory (and if this is similar for motorcycles), Honda could configure the Speedo for worst case gearing and tire changes, and configure the ODO to be accurate for the most common setups.
I'm not saying this is it, I'm just throwing guesses as to why it is. Just cause it doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean there isn't a reason!
I'm curious too, found that article when trying to figure out why am going to continue the hunt...
Governing bodies regulate how much a speedo can be off. For instance, looking into it quickly a passenger vehicle may NEVER read lower than actual speed in Europe, regardless of tire size and pressure! Speedometer Scandal! - Feature - Car and Driver
So, in theory (and if this is similar for motorcycles), Honda could configure the Speedo for worst case gearing and tire changes, and configure the ODO to be accurate for the most common setups.
I'm not saying this is it, I'm just throwing guesses as to why it is. Just cause it doesn't make sense, it doesn't mean there isn't a reason!
I'm curious too, found that article when trying to figure out why am going to continue the hunt...
#30
Yeah I get what you're saying. To bad there aren't any Honda engineers on this forum that could shed some light on the subject!