The Hawks equal?
07-06-2009, 10:17 AM
#31
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07-06-2009, 10:54 AM
#32
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I think the middle aged dentist who spends $25k-$30k on a HD maintains it better than the 18 year old kid with the Gixxer 600.
While that kid is ripping around shifting at 13k rpm, the Harley spends most of its time posing in front of the local pub.
I've got no interest in Harleys, but apparently a lot of people do.
07-06-2009, 11:09 AM
#33
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The Triumph Sprint RS is probably closer than the ST. Riding position is closer to the superhawk, fairing is the same, not quite the V-twin sound but the same feel as a hawk. only differences is that it's a little more comfy and it get's almost twice the gas mileage.
07-06-2009, 11:11 AM
#34
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Lots of reasons. Harley doesn't redesign a new bike/obsolete the "old" one every two years for the bike magazines' latest Off The Chain Mega Monster Superbike Shootout!!!
I think the middle aged dentist who spends $25k-$30k on a HD maintains it better than the 18 year old kid with the Gixxer 600.
While that kid is ripping around shifting at 13k rpm, the Harley spends most of its time posing in front of the local pub.
I've got no interest in Harleys, but apparently a lot of people do.
I think the middle aged dentist who spends $25k-$30k on a HD maintains it better than the 18 year old kid with the Gixxer 600.
While that kid is ripping around shifting at 13k rpm, the Harley spends most of its time posing in front of the local pub.
I've got no interest in Harleys, but apparently a lot of people do.
Off the soapbox now.....
07-06-2009, 11:13 AM
#35
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yes, but they no longer make the RS whereas the ST is still being offered, therein lies the difference.
07-06-2009, 11:23 AM
#36
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You got that right, they are still milking a fifty year-old design. How, and why, people pay mega dollars for a bike that does nothing well is beyond me. I guess the posers really value the name on the tank, and the pseudo-pretige that goes along with it (from other wanna-bes).
Off the soapbox now.....
Off the soapbox now.....
07-06-2009, 11:44 AM
#38
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Granted I have a deep-set hatred for all things Harley (stemming from the holier-than-thou attitude adopted by most owners). On a more rational note, I had a chance to sample quite a few cruisers in the past two years during my spell as editor of a bike mag and none of them impressed me in the least. They were, without exception, heavy, slow and less than stellar handling. In short, they did nothing remotely remarkable on the functional level, proving that function is NOT a reason to buy a cruiser (the caveat being the touring models which are likely somewhat functional). Imagine, if you will, someone attempting to ride an abomination like the CrossBones any further than a couple of blocks....
On the other hand, bikes like the Bandit 1250, Honda CBF1000 and Varadero, and numerous other standards offer all-day comfort, better performance, handling and are much better in every possible way, not to mention cheaper to buy. They are relaxing to ride too (the line often used by cruiser buyers to justify their purchase).
Image sells product, and Harley is living proof of that. If some have that kind of money to **** away for poser points, I am not one of them (and if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't waste them on a two-wheeled paint mixer)....
On the other hand, bikes like the Bandit 1250, Honda CBF1000 and Varadero, and numerous other standards offer all-day comfort, better performance, handling and are much better in every possible way, not to mention cheaper to buy. They are relaxing to ride too (the line often used by cruiser buyers to justify their purchase).
Image sells product, and Harley is living proof of that. If some have that kind of money to **** away for poser points, I am not one of them (and if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't waste them on a two-wheeled paint mixer)....
Last edited by mikstr; 07-06-2009 at 11:49 AM.
07-06-2009, 01:23 PM
#39
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Triumphs are super bikes, well built and designed. I like working on them.
But they use way too many kawasaki parts for my taste.
Electrical parts like stators and alternators...carbs... all kinds of tidbits come right from KHI. Otherwise, they are really nice.
But they use way too many kawasaki parts for my taste.
Electrical parts like stators and alternators...carbs... all kinds of tidbits come right from KHI. Otherwise, they are really nice.
07-06-2009, 04:05 PM
#41
Out of my mind, back in 5
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oh c'mon its not that bad, just depends on your needs. For its purpose its actually about perfect. I had a 2000 road king for a couple of years - and for around town or two-up trips with my wife, it was about perfect - and I grew up thinking an old electraglide was how a bike looked so I never tired of seeing it in the garage. But nothing to knock really and they continue to improve them. And while their prices used to be markedly different from japan - the gap is much smaller now - factor in resale its probably a wash. In addition to resale, they have one of the best support networks (dealer and manufacturers) around and compared to any other marque I've owned they take better care of the customers.
I actually liked ONE hardley I have ridden... It had been converted by an ex Swedish champion in Superbike... You could actually lean it over without grinding noises and it had real brakes... Even with the ridiculous front fork it was fun to play catch-up with the squids with...
07-06-2009, 05:03 PM
#42
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C'mon guys, motorcycles belong to that sensory, primal, and impractical place that people go to for kicks. Cars are far better suited to the mundane task of transportation with better protection from accidents and weather. But yet, we ride... So, if someone enjoys the company of a Harley when they ride, who are we to get practical with them by arguing that braking, handling, and lower cost are advantages we enjoy. Isn't that a kind of "holier than thou" stance?
Let everyone ride what they want to. The bike world would be pretty boring if diversity was eliminated.
My choice for the bike most similar to our Hawks would be the SV 1000. To me though, it's a little to sterile and lacks "soul".
Let everyone ride what they want to. The bike world would be pretty boring if diversity was eliminated.
My choice for the bike most similar to our Hawks would be the SV 1000. To me though, it's a little to sterile and lacks "soul".
07-06-2009, 05:18 PM
#43
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While I can relate to what you're saying, every time some Baby Boomer posercycle Hardley owner looks down at me for riding something other than a Milwaukee-made paint mixer my blood pressure shoots up into the red (my mind rapidly filling with evil thoughts of what I'd like to do to this person to teach them all about respect). In the end, it isn't so much the bikes themselves that bother me as the (obviously insecure mid-life crisis) owners who act as though they know it all and I am some hopeless twit (when I have forgotten more about bikes than most of these losers will ever know).
Last edited by mikstr; 07-06-2009 at 05:21 PM.
07-06-2009, 05:24 PM
#44
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I hope the irony of the harley comments from a bunch of superhawk fanatics is not lost on anyone. our bike was out dated in many areas almost as quickly as it was introduced - and they couldn't even borrow 5 year old RR parts and stick them on it - we have to do that ourselves!!
and in defense of many harley riders (most around the upper midwest) I'm betting their average mileage exceeds most japanese bike brands. Sure there are posers of any brand - they say the same about riding bikes whose limits we aren't capable of even getting near - or spending countless hours/time getting 5 more hp we don't need.
and in defense of many harley riders (most around the upper midwest) I'm betting their average mileage exceeds most japanese bike brands. Sure there are posers of any brand - they say the same about riding bikes whose limits we aren't capable of even getting near - or spending countless hours/time getting 5 more hp we don't need.
07-06-2009, 05:38 PM
#45
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I hope the irony of the harley comments from a bunch of superhawk fanatics is not lost on anyone. our bike was out dated in many areas almost as quickly as it was introduced - and they couldn't even borrow 5 year old RR parts and stick them on it - we have to do that ourselves!!
and in defense of many harley riders (most around the upper midwest) I'm betting their average mileage exceeds most japanese bike brands. Sure there are posers of any brand - they say the same about riding bikes whose limits we aren't capable of even getting near - or spending countless hours/time getting 5 more hp we don't need.
and in defense of many harley riders (most around the upper midwest) I'm betting their average mileage exceeds most japanese bike brands. Sure there are posers of any brand - they say the same about riding bikes whose limits we aren't capable of even getting near - or spending countless hours/time getting 5 more hp we don't need.
A lot of guys with Harleys love their bikes, ride them a lot and know them inside out. They just don't care about track days, racing, quarter mile times etc. They just like to cruise. Good for them.
I'm just not a Harley guy, but my previous disparaging comments were about the posers, not the bikes themselves or the guys who actually love riding them.
PS and even the guy who puts 500 miles a year on his $30K Harley so he can park in front of the bar and pretend he's "bad", makes me laugh, but if it makes him happy, who cares?
And if and when he gets tired of play acting and sells his bike he'll probably get more of his money back then anybody does on a 3-4-5 year old Jap bike.
Buy what you want ride what you want.
Last edited by RK1; 07-06-2009 at 05:46 PM.
07-07-2009, 11:58 AM
#46
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The used bikes I considered before buying a hawk and deemed similar to enough to suit my desire for a basic torque machine were:
KTM SuperDuke - Too expensive
Triumph Speed 3 - Cost and Head Shake issues
SV 1000 - Quality issues and uglier than the hawk
It's really hard to beat the hawk for low cost and decent build. Although a used SuperDuke my still be in my future.
KTM SuperDuke - Too expensive
Triumph Speed 3 - Cost and Head Shake issues
SV 1000 - Quality issues and uglier than the hawk
It's really hard to beat the hawk for low cost and decent build. Although a used SuperDuke my still be in my future.
Last edited by Moto Man; 07-07-2009 at 04:49 PM.
07-07-2009, 02:09 PM
#47
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i think the closest thing to a VTR would have to be the SV-1000
Sport Touring V-twin, not a full out SS ridng position, half fairings, 1000cc, comparable power but FI, good aftermarket support, and they just stopped making them (or still are)
nothing else really comes as close, the next closest to VTR would be its primary rival the TLR or TLS but those are just as old and got replaced with the SV.
other bikes that come close dont mimic VTR....its because not that many bikes came V-twin in our segment....
Sport Touring V-twin, not a full out SS ridng position, half fairings, 1000cc, comparable power but FI, good aftermarket support, and they just stopped making them (or still are)
nothing else really comes as close, the next closest to VTR would be its primary rival the TLR or TLS but those are just as old and got replaced with the SV.
other bikes that come close dont mimic VTR....its because not that many bikes came V-twin in our segment....
hmmm. with such a great following and nothing else really comparing in the class i do not see why Honda abandoned this platform and features. from what i see it really just needed a bit of updating and some better brakes, bigger gas tank and not a whole lot else.
why give up on a bike that they have right? and replace it with? what was the hawk replaced with by Honda by the way?
why give up on a bike that they have right? and replace it with? what was the hawk replaced with by Honda by the way?
Given the costs of design and tooling, I'm guessing Honda lost money on this bike, start to finish.
So why did I get one? Not your typical sportbike buyer, I'm OLD. A few tenths in the quarter means nothing to me. The bike handles/brakes better than I ride. Don't mind the fuel range, I've got a GoldWing for that. Not rich, just spend it all on bikes..
And, I got a leftover for $6K new. 0 miles, they assembled it out of the crate, for me.
Last edited by Redone; 07-07-2009 at 02:21 PM.
07-08-2009, 09:50 AM
#48
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Was at a dealer yesterday.
Saw the Tuono. Nice bike; the front fairing is a bit quirky looking the way its attached to the bike.
Saw the new Ducati Streetfighter. It is all business, but its too nice a bike for the way I ride.
Saw the Duc supermoto bike. That seat wouldn't be comfortabe on dayrides.
Now the Aprilia 750 Shiver I think is pretty much equal or better. V-twin power. 95hp/60lb/ft. Almost the same. Weight: about the same. Suspension: Probably better; inverted non-adjustable forks. Brakes: radial mount calipers.
Seat looks comfy for all day rides. Looks good and you won't see one on every street corner.
Saw the Tuono. Nice bike; the front fairing is a bit quirky looking the way its attached to the bike.
Saw the new Ducati Streetfighter. It is all business, but its too nice a bike for the way I ride.
Saw the Duc supermoto bike. That seat wouldn't be comfortabe on dayrides.
Now the Aprilia 750 Shiver I think is pretty much equal or better. V-twin power. 95hp/60lb/ft. Almost the same. Weight: about the same. Suspension: Probably better; inverted non-adjustable forks. Brakes: radial mount calipers.
Seat looks comfy for all day rides. Looks good and you won't see one on every street corner.
07-08-2009, 10:10 AM
#49
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You should specify in North America for it was at the top of the sales charts in Australia, for example, and sold well in Europe. North Americans are too busy flocking to posercycles (Harleys et al) or squidcycles (GSX-Rs,...). Real-world, practical bikes (like standards,...) do not do well in our image-obsessed marketplace.
07-09-2009, 07:30 PM
#50
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has anyone ridden the new R1? I know it's not a twin, however the engine changes affecting the sound and torque would seem to make it a practical street bike with the character of a twin. It's a moot point for me for financial reasons at least. As long as my SH continues to put a smile on my face and tickle my senses, i really don't give a **** about replacing it with anything.
07-13-2009, 04:47 PM
#51
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Remember the Aprilia SL Falco! That was nearly identical to the vtr1000 when it came out, just with better brakes and suspension, but too bad it was an Aprilia. If I were to replace my VTR with something similar, it would be the new BMW r1200s, but don't worry, I'm poor and satistifed, in the twisties I will continue to eat up those squids on gixxers and cbr's all day long. I'd wave also if I were to own a bwm.
07-13-2009, 05:27 PM
#52
geezer
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The new Ducati Streetfighter would be my replacement fot the SH. http://www.streetfighter.ducati.com/...ex.jsp?lang=en
surging at low rpms...owing to arthritis in my hands I could only ride my VTR for an hour or so before it was too painful and I had to take a break, with the Duc I feel like I could ride all day...
07-13-2009, 06:22 PM
#54
geezer
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07-15-2009, 12:55 PM
#55
I don't need any Meds
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07-15-2009, 01:02 PM
#56
geezer
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