It was the best of times, it was the worst of times- Version 2
#1
It was the best of times, it was the worst of times- Version 2
And I thought superhawk 22 was special for highsiding his Superhawk! Man I hate to read all those posts about people crashing, and never thought I'd be one to do it as well, but as embarrassed as I am, I thought I'd post this because I know some of you would be interested in how the bike and equipment held up.
The day started out okay- weather was cold with gusty winds, but clear skies. We were using a new infield layout at Calif. Speedway designed by Fastrackriders, running clockwise. In the first session, traction was obviously a little sketchy, so I took it easy getting acquainted with the new layout. I've been running Michelin Power Race Mediums and they felt just fine. I came back in and added a click of compression damping to the rear shock.
Next session out, I spent the first 4 or 5 laps warming up (still cold, upper 40's). The bike felt even better now, and my confidence blossomed. The bike was going where I was pointing it, and traction seemed okay. I actually felt like the temps were warming up. I picked up the pace and felt great. The field included many Ducs, Aprilia's and usual lot of inline fours, but nobody was passing me today. Hmmm, maybe that should have been a clue!
It was coming too easy- so fun. By the time I got around 10 to 12 laps in, I figured the tires were as warm as they were going to get, and our session was almost done. I rode briskly, but not pushing. Surprisingly, as I was exiting turn 2, the second half of a right-left chicane, I felt an unexpected slide out of the rear, on the gas. I thought I could save it, but then I think it swung the other way and bucked me over the left side, hard. Luckily the bike fell down on the left side as well, rather than flipping, and it slid for about 30 ft.
The Superhawk survived the incident in much better shape then I, only bending the left side controls and scratching the edges of my fairings. I was using T-Rex frame sliders and some generic delrin bar end sliders, and they both did their jobs. Remarkably, my Two Bros. can was not damaged. On the pipe, I've got these goofy variable outlet adjusters, and the **** sticks out a bit on the left. When the bike slid, it only slid on the ****, and the pipe stayed off the ground. The 3 position adjuster will need to be fixed however- maybe I'll just weld it wide open and call it a day (they actually did remove a few decibels when in the closed position, but still loud as hell).
Anyway, I ended up breaking a rib, as my left arm was pushed into my side. Apparently I slammed my head pretty good too, although I didn't feel it at all. My friend happened to be video taping out of that corner and caught the whole thing on his camera- amazing. It looked like I may have slid the front a bit at first, then the rear. I'm trying to get a copy of it. If I do, I'll try to post it at youtube or something.
Kudos also goes out to Shoei helmets and Spidi leathers. Everything protected me as they should. No skin damage, no headache, nothing.
A few turns before disaster strikes:
The day started out okay- weather was cold with gusty winds, but clear skies. We were using a new infield layout at Calif. Speedway designed by Fastrackriders, running clockwise. In the first session, traction was obviously a little sketchy, so I took it easy getting acquainted with the new layout. I've been running Michelin Power Race Mediums and they felt just fine. I came back in and added a click of compression damping to the rear shock.
Next session out, I spent the first 4 or 5 laps warming up (still cold, upper 40's). The bike felt even better now, and my confidence blossomed. The bike was going where I was pointing it, and traction seemed okay. I actually felt like the temps were warming up. I picked up the pace and felt great. The field included many Ducs, Aprilia's and usual lot of inline fours, but nobody was passing me today. Hmmm, maybe that should have been a clue!
It was coming too easy- so fun. By the time I got around 10 to 12 laps in, I figured the tires were as warm as they were going to get, and our session was almost done. I rode briskly, but not pushing. Surprisingly, as I was exiting turn 2, the second half of a right-left chicane, I felt an unexpected slide out of the rear, on the gas. I thought I could save it, but then I think it swung the other way and bucked me over the left side, hard. Luckily the bike fell down on the left side as well, rather than flipping, and it slid for about 30 ft.
The Superhawk survived the incident in much better shape then I, only bending the left side controls and scratching the edges of my fairings. I was using T-Rex frame sliders and some generic delrin bar end sliders, and they both did their jobs. Remarkably, my Two Bros. can was not damaged. On the pipe, I've got these goofy variable outlet adjusters, and the **** sticks out a bit on the left. When the bike slid, it only slid on the ****, and the pipe stayed off the ground. The 3 position adjuster will need to be fixed however- maybe I'll just weld it wide open and call it a day (they actually did remove a few decibels when in the closed position, but still loud as hell).
Anyway, I ended up breaking a rib, as my left arm was pushed into my side. Apparently I slammed my head pretty good too, although I didn't feel it at all. My friend happened to be video taping out of that corner and caught the whole thing on his camera- amazing. It looked like I may have slid the front a bit at first, then the rear. I'm trying to get a copy of it. If I do, I'll try to post it at youtube or something.
Kudos also goes out to Shoei helmets and Spidi leathers. Everything protected me as they should. No skin damage, no headache, nothing.
A few turns before disaster strikes:
#4
Glad you're OK and I would like to see the tape. This cooler weather is going to gather up a few more dings before it's done with us. We were just talking last night about all the sand that's going to be all over the central and eastern US. They say that it's never just one thing but my philosophy is why put another thing on the pile. I will go street at 40F but I don't think I would go to the track. It will be interesting to see if the front let go first. This to me would indicate that the front may have been running cooler than the rear. Again, try not to laugh or cough, but glad you're OK and the bikes not too bad either. Your helmet sounds like it provided excellent protection! Not even a headache is very good, indeed!
#6
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Joined: Oct 2006
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From: Russell, Bay of Islands, New Zealand
That's a pretty light get-off, though none is ever pleasant.
I suggest you try to recall your own reactions.
My guess - having done it myself - is that the rear slid out to the right under power, you snapped the throttle off in a big way, the tire went from spinning to a sudden stop as you swung the other way in countersteering, and from there the fall was just going to happen.
The solution is to keep power on when the rear starts to slide. On a road bike, the best place to practice this is probably gravel roads; or, given the cold that I understand to be prevalent in the USA at the moment, on snow and ice. On these surfaces, you learn to steer with the throttle - very useful for track riding.
I suggest you try to recall your own reactions.
My guess - having done it myself - is that the rear slid out to the right under power, you snapped the throttle off in a big way, the tire went from spinning to a sudden stop as you swung the other way in countersteering, and from there the fall was just going to happen.
The solution is to keep power on when the rear starts to slide. On a road bike, the best place to practice this is probably gravel roads; or, given the cold that I understand to be prevalent in the USA at the moment, on snow and ice. On these surfaces, you learn to steer with the throttle - very useful for track riding.
#7
An interesting proposition, although I might not try to practice anything on my street bike in the ice/snow. However, putting some big arcs around fire roads on a dirt bike helps. I try to dirt track my dirt back every chance I get in hopes of learning the feeling so that I don't instinctively let off the gas if I start slipping the rearend of the streetbike.
As I am not a v2 owner quite yet (and my whimpy I4 600 won't readily spin the rear) , I am wondering if the compression braking that the Hawk offers is more likely to cause high sides than a I4. Even on the straight roads chopping the throttle on the V2 seems to cause quite a rucus. I have only ridden a Mille for a short period of time, so I am sure it takes some getting used to. But it was a little unerving at first.
As I am not a v2 owner quite yet (and my whimpy I4 600 won't readily spin the rear) , I am wondering if the compression braking that the Hawk offers is more likely to cause high sides than a I4. Even on the straight roads chopping the throttle on the V2 seems to cause quite a rucus. I have only ridden a Mille for a short period of time, so I am sure it takes some getting used to. But it was a little unerving at first.
#8
thanks for sharing the story and glad you are OK. Its always good to get reminders about traction limits, cold temps etc. As for preventing a highside once the rear lets go. I always struggle a little when I read about riding tips to prevent high sides: I think practicing slides is fun (especially on a small dirt bike) and very useful for learning bike handling. But I really believe that is a very different scenario: specifically, intentionally sliding the rear. Those skills help with that technique. However, for the unexpected slide, I think we just revert back to instinct reaction and I'm not convinced that can be trained out of us (at least not without very regular and protracted efforts. If it could you wouldn't see so many highsides from pro racers, so many collarbone fractures and so much effort at traction control devices to minimize them.
bill
bill
#11
Thanks for the kind words guys, I appreciate it.
I was trying to be careful in warming the tires up, building speed progressively, and the slide came with no warning. I tried to roll off the throttle smoothly, but I couldn't hold on. I'm definitely no Nicky Hayden....
IMO part of the problem, beside my lameness, was the layout with this cold weather- not many big left handers to keep the left side warm enough. On a regular nice day, it's probably a great layout.
I was trying to be careful in warming the tires up, building speed progressively, and the slide came with no warning. I tried to roll off the throttle smoothly, but I couldn't hold on. I'm definitely no Nicky Hayden....
IMO part of the problem, beside my lameness, was the layout with this cold weather- not many big left handers to keep the left side warm enough. On a regular nice day, it's probably a great layout.
#12
Wow! Glad to hear you're okay.
I hate that after-crash feeling, where you tell yourself I shouldn't have been pushing that little bit more. It's such a good feeling while you're still on two and railing - it's hard to resist going a little further!
I hate that after-crash feeling, where you tell yourself I shouldn't have been pushing that little bit more. It's such a good feeling while you're still on two and railing - it's hard to resist going a little further!
#13
Couldn't have said it any better. Worse yet, the guy who shot the video is a friend of mine whom we're trying to convince to ride on the track with us because it's less dangerous than the streets. Oops.
#15
Glad to hear you made out ok. Sure the rib hurts but it'll heal. Any time you can get away with nothing permanent I say you're ahead of the game. Feel better. Oh and if the rib bruises up real nice make sure to get us a pic or two
#16
Funny,(curious funny not laughing funny ), I was just getting ready to post my crash pics that I just got in today. Glad you're ok,(except when you laugh oops sorry bout that), nothing like good gear to get you through. I'll be chasing my demons away on Monday for my B-day, yeah I know buy I like to kick fate in the nuts!! Get back out there as soon as you heal up!
#19
Cap'n Chaos: I don't know pics of my actual body my scare the children away!
22: Thanks for the inspiration for this thread and may the Cycle Gods smile down upon thee. What's that saying? That which doesn't kill me makes me stronger!
gssbmm: Yes I was quite impressed with the T-Rex's, it looks as if they really helped save quite a bit of damage. It looks like even my radiator survived.
#23
I'm glad you're ok. I wish my crash had happpened on the track.
You probably started getting more aggressive with the throttle and spun the rear tire.
somebody said a few repies back that his 600 wouldn't do that. I had a guy trying to get me back on a F4i at a track day. He whacked the throttle open and highsided huge. I came back around and there were little Honda parts everywhere! I don't think there was a good external part anywhere on the bike.
You probably started getting more aggressive with the throttle and spun the rear tire.
somebody said a few repies back that his 600 wouldn't do that. I had a guy trying to get me back on a F4i at a track day. He whacked the throttle open and highsided huge. I came back around and there were little Honda parts everywhere! I don't think there was a good external part anywhere on the bike.
#24
It was me, and my 600 is a Seca 2. It is a bit gutless, though I am sure I could get it to spin and highside if I really tried. But it is not the kind of bike I want to push that far. My statement was also a sort of question as I am shopping Superhawks; I am wondering if the V2/SH is more touchy to that particular situation (ie spinning, then letting off the gas).
#25
It was me, and my 600 is a Seca 2. It is a bit gutless, though I am sure I could get it to spin and highside if I really tried. But it is not the kind of bike I want to push that far. My statement was also a sort of question as I am shopping Superhawks; I am wondering if the V2/SH is more touchy to that particular situation (ie spinning, then letting off the gas).
#26
Glad you're ok , man!What several people said about pushing that one extra bit is so true. Weird how we don't realize that we're already riding on the edge of the limit.Everything's going great... you're in as rhythm...you feel so smooth, so comfortable. So you try to push it a tad more...
#27
L8RGYZ: It it a very fine line we tread, isn't it? I was hoping if I was coming to close to the edge of available traction, I would get a little warning first, like some squirming or something, but it happened rather suddenly.
#28
It is also good to see that T-Rex no cut sliders work well and didn't bend the frame at all.
I've got to say that sliding around on ice and snow sounds like a bad idea to me.
I've spun of the rear before and lucky for me it got back in line before I had time to let off the gas. Which is nice, because I surely would have done so if I had time to.
Broken ribs suck. I did that before too. Sore as hell. I was getting cramps in the muscles around my rib cage that prevented me from breathing. So that was nice. Did you have any of that, too?
I've got to say that sliding around on ice and snow sounds like a bad idea to me.
I've spun of the rear before and lucky for me it got back in line before I had time to let off the gas. Which is nice, because I surely would have done so if I had time to.
Broken ribs suck. I did that before too. Sore as hell. I was getting cramps in the muscles around my rib cage that prevented me from breathing. So that was nice. Did you have any of that, too?
#29
LOL, yeah I couldn't imagine taking my 450 lb. bike into that stuff. I started riding track days to get AWAY from that stuff. Dirt bike riding sounds like a better solution for slide practice.
This is the third time (one time I did it skiing) in my life I've busted my left side up, and I think this is the worst yet. Luckily I haven't had breathing problems (actually the doc told me if I do within the first 48 hrs. to rush to emergency). I actually feel the rib moving around down there, so shifting around while on my back is a bitch. I've had to sleep flat on my back as well, it's too uncomfortable any other way. Sitting up, not too bad. My kids are bumming because I can't pick them up. I feel really bad about that. The pain killers are helping.
Thanks for the sympathy for this ol' fool.
This is the third time (one time I did it skiing) in my life I've busted my left side up, and I think this is the worst yet. Luckily I haven't had breathing problems (actually the doc told me if I do within the first 48 hrs. to rush to emergency). I actually feel the rib moving around down there, so shifting around while on my back is a bitch. I've had to sleep flat on my back as well, it's too uncomfortable any other way. Sitting up, not too bad. My kids are bumming because I can't pick them up. I feel really bad about that. The pain killers are helping.
Thanks for the sympathy for this ol' fool.