bundleofgrundle

I don;t necessarily disagree with you, especially given how the current race is shaping up. It seems to me like people have lost their perspective and are paying attention to personal merit as opposed to political stances. I agree the democratic system has its fundamental flaws but it becomes that much more appealing when you begin to consider the alternatives. Just my $.02

1zeppfan

Democracy------To bad thats not what we have. I like Elected Representative thank you.

cliby

1+
and since ben franklin was quoted earlier some other observation that is applicable;

"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."

killer5280

How about another quote attributed to Ben Franklin since some here are under the misapprehension that the United States is a democracy.

AUTHOR:Benjamin Franklin (1706–90) QUOTATION:“Well, Doctor, what have we got—a Republic or a Monarchy?”

“A Republic, if you can keep it.”


Here are some other quotes from that era about democracies.

"We are a Republican Government. Real liberty is never found in despotism or in the extremes of Democracy... It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity."
-- Alexander Hamilton, Secretary of the Treasury to George Washington, author of the Federalist Papers
"Democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide."
-- John Adams, 2nd President of the United States
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine."
-- Thomas Jefferson, 3rd President of the United States, author of the Bill of Rights
"Democracies have ever been spectacles of turbulence and contention; have ever been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and have in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.
-- James Madison, 4th President of the United States, Father of the Constitution
"The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived."
-- John Quincy Adams, 6th President of the United States
"Between a balanced republic and a democracy, the difference is like that between order and chaos."
-- John Marshall, Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, 1801-1835

L8RGYZ

Simple solution... don't come into the "Everything Else" section. Just stick to the Super Hawk stuff you prefer. (Similar to TV, it's all down to a click of the mouse; or not. Freedom.)

That said, I respect your opinion.

Option B: have a section exclusively for reasonable political discourse.

1zeppfan

+1
Smart man.

L8RGYZ

Now my political opinion:

Nobody is addressing the biggest problem, which is the influence of business on politics.

Under the Constitution, it is people who have rights & people who vote. Yet when you talk about limiting business campaign contributions, the big arguement is made about freedom of speech. Frankly I believe businesses should make no contributions, only people (voters) should be able to do that.

Who has the BIGGEST voice in our political campaigns. Business. Who has the most influence over our elected officials. Business.

That said, I think we should quit taxing all businesses. Why? Because every tax is simply passed on to the individual citizens. Tax me what ever is necessary personally.

Campaigns are about telling us what we want to hear. It's mostly a smoke screen so they don't have to address real issues.

Obama is a slick, persuasive guy. Joe Biden is so much of a DC insider. Hate to see either of them appoint a Supreme Court judge.

I'll probably vote for McCain/Palin, although McCain IIRC was a part of the Keating Five S&L corruption debacle of some years ago. So I am skeptical of him for that reason.

L8RGYZ

Can't let that pass w/o comment, since some of my best friends are black. Name calling is not political discussion. I doubt I'll change your mind, but I wish you'd keep such slurs to yourself.

nuhawk

Yes, Obywan, you speak volumes.

VTRsurfer

As for how I feel about Obama....I would never vote for him because of his Socialist views and his arrogance.

However, I think it is GREAT that a "black man" has been nominated for President of the United States of America. This should forever shut up the racist rants of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Faracon and the like.

Barak Obama being black (he's half white, so couldn't he just as well be called white) has nothing to do with me not supporting him. I would support someone with the integrity of Colin Powell, but I question Obama's integrity and his inability to speak without a teleprompter.

RK1

Living in California, my vote cannot effect the outcome of the election. Obama will take this state without question. I can afford to vote third party, either Libertarian or Constitution party and that is what I will do.

California was once a reliable Republican state. Nixon won it in '68 and '72, Ford in '76, Reagan in '80 and '84 and Bush in '88.

What happened to California is a massive influx of poor third world immigrants who vote Democrat for the socialism and welfare.

McCain is absolutely bone marrow dedicated to amnesty and an open borders immigration policy which will do to the other 49 states what has already been done to California.

If you wish to know what your state will look like 10 or 15 years from now, come spend a few days in Mexifornia.

VTRsurfer

I was born in Los Angeles in 1946, so I've seen it happen.

RK1

New Spanish language commercial by the "war hero" blames Obama and Democrats for failure of his legislation to give amnesty, welfare rights and voting rights to tens of millions of illegal aliens.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.p...w&pageId=75654
McCain commercial blames Obama for 'amnesty' failure – in <i>Spanish</i>

L8RGYZ

Now you ARE dreamin'! Some people seem to never get past race... on both sides. I would vote for Colin Powell, too. I'd vote for Obama if I agreed with his views.

L8RGYZ

Jees, that's just crazy.

CentralCoaster

am·nes·ty
: the act of an authority (as a government) by which pardon is granted to a large group of individuals


Sorry, but I don't see amnesty anywhere in that article. Some seem to point at anything that could potentially make immigrating to the U.S. more feasible, as being amnesty.

I'm with the other poster above, I'm voting 3rd party. Now what we need, is 4 major parties. Last time there was a significant 3rd party candidate, it really backfired. Maybe we can rank our choices, that would fix that issue, and less people would be afraid of "wasting" their vote on who they really wanted in.

RK1

Let's see. Tens of millions of foreign national aliens violate the law, enter and live in the US illegally.

McCain cosponsors legislation with Ted Kennedy

(aka McCain/Kennedy "Comprehensive immigration reform") which allows them all to stay, grants them tax forgiveness, makes them eligible for welfare, allows them to bring in their relatives from home, allows them to apply for citizenship.

That isn't mere amnesty. That is amnesty plus rewards.

That is what he is bragging about on Spanish language TV.

killer5280

Let's not forget that Bush (as have nearly all those in "leadership" positions regardless of political affiliation) has been an unabashed proponent of amnesty, too.

It causes me a chuckle when people say that what that ad, and what McCain and others are proposing, is not amnesty. I guess because it doesn't specifically say that the purpose of said legislation is to validate wholesale violation of our laws and grant amnesty plus benefits to those here illegally it's not really amnesty. Gee, politicians and those grovelling for handouts wouldn't lie to us or put a spin on something to try to deceive us, would they? In reality, the "war hero" is a lying traitor.

CentralCoaster, it's not hard to immigrate to the US. In fact, this is the easiest country in the world in which to immigrate, either legally or illegally. People point to efforts by scum internationalists to make it easier to immigrate here as amnesty because that's exactly what it is.

RK1

None dare call it trea... er, amnesty.

L8RGYZ

Comes back to Business & politics. These people are doing this because business wants it and politicians want it. Business loves the cheap, illegal labor and our elected reps. let it happen. Our executive branch lets it happen. Unfortunately this crap is blowing up in our faces.
It just shows you how truly irrenevant the voters are in politics when the the majority of the People want to deal with the problem & the politicians just ignore us.

nuhawk

I appreciate your comment and value it. I also know Hispanics that are too dumb to understand Spanish. No slur to Hispanics in general, your black friends or mine (they are more than a few) or my Redneck brothers. Idiots, drug freaks and under-educated zealots abound in our society.

My point is simple, you can't lead millions of people with the "pig" anology. You cannot lead millions of people with inflamatory comments and statements.

Did you see how he was almost speechless today on the proposed bail out. And Joe Biden, "Be a better patriot and pay higher taxes."

Are you kidding???

It only shows how out of touch the guy is.

The real truth of all of this is just this. These looser mortgage laws were enacted by the first Clinton.

Thank God we avoided the next Clinton.

To make housing more affordable to minorities and those that are financially disadvantaged (noble but highly misguided) these laws were enacted back then. True, McCain voted for it too. It's just now building its nest financially. George41 and the current George had nothing to do with it. It's unfair to blame them.

To compound this situation, I think we are on the verge of a taxpayer revolt. People that say the least, suffer the most, pay the biggest bill. ???

nuhawk

I'd vote for Colin Powell in a heartbeat or Condolezza Rice anytime. They're still bullpen material. They're just watchin' us shake this out. They are both intelligent and precise people. I like that. It ain't about color when you're that damn good!

Death Cattle

the only time it would/should be about color is if the colored person in office was only trying to make things better for the rest of the colored society, in which case would result in an epic fail.

MikeJohnson

McCain is a lying piece of **** who has no business being in politics in this country. His disgusting attack ads on TV are proof enough for me. You right wing hacks can continue to spout conservative talking points all you want, but that won't change the fact that McSame and Caribou Barbie will continue the Bush agenda of shifting wealth from you and me to the uber rich, trashing the constitution and Bill of Rights and continue to expand government. Conservatives claim to want smaller government but support politicians who continue to swell it to the largest size in history. They claim to want fiscal responsibility yet we now have the largest debt in history with no plan to reduce it except borrow more money from foreign countries. Several of you are ex military and I thank you for your service, but you talk of supporting a guy who has consistantly voted against every veteran legislation that the Democrats have tried to get passed. There are more vets living on the streets today than at any time in our history and conservatives couldn't care less. McShame wouldn't lift a finger to help you vets and yet you support him? I'm amazed you all don't ride Harleys...
Oh, and by the way, Obama doesn't want your hunting rifles. He just doesn't think the crack head down the block needs an AK47 under his bed. Stop listening to morons like O'Rielly and Limbaugh and educate yourselves to the truth and you might just learn something.

RK1

Obama on guns.

IVI-IPO General Candidate Questionaire Illinois State Senate

Question #35

Do you support state legislation to ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns?


Obama's answer; YES



http://www.politico.com/static/PPM43...re_091096.html

MikeJohnson

Here is what Obama really said about gun control. Thoughtful intelligence will rule the day... Not your one line of spin.

Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.
Source: 2008 Politico pre-Potomac Primary interview Feb 11, 2008

MikeJohnson

More food for thought...

Q: When you were in the state senate, you talked about licensing and registering gun owners. Would you do that as president?A: I don't think that we can get that done. But what we can do is to provide just some common-sense enforcement. The efforts by law enforcement to obtain the information required to trace back guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers. As president, I intend to make it happen. We essentially have two realities, when it comes to guns, in this country. You've got the tradition of lawful gun ownership. It is very important for many Americans to be able to hunt, fish, take their kids out, teach them how to shoot. Then you've got the reality of 34 Chicago public school students who get shot down on the streets of Chicago. We can reconcile those two realities by making sure the Second Amendment is respected and that people are able to lawfully own guns, but that we also start cracking down on the kinds of abuses of firearms that we see on the streets.
Source: 2008 Democratic debate in Las Vegas Jan 15, 2008