Urban VW "The frame grinder" project
10-28-2009 | 04:30 PM
#1
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
Urban VW "The frame grinder" project
Hi all,
First off, is this a motorcycle only forum? I have not been posting anywhere else about my VW bus project, and was wondering if you guys would take an interest to my project. If no one cares that's alright. My tastes for things may be different then yours. Also my level of crazy has escalated over the last year or so.
The plan: I want to slam my bus so it will lay frame, hence the title. However I did not want to do it the traditional way and considering the chassis was already bent and the cost of buying specific parts I set out on my quest. I designed a preliminary chassis in Solid Works and went on from there. Collecting Chevy spindles and rims, airbags from ebay, polybushings from airride, I then began... so I have been building a complete rolling chassis, unequal length A arms front and rear. The Chevy spindles also allowed me to have discs on all four as well so she should stop pretty well I figure. I can get into more detail later if you all would like. For know to guage ineterest here are a few pictures of my work so far. Thanks for reading.
First off, is this a motorcycle only forum? I have not been posting anywhere else about my VW bus project, and was wondering if you guys would take an interest to my project. If no one cares that's alright. My tastes for things may be different then yours. Also my level of crazy has escalated over the last year or so.
The plan: I want to slam my bus so it will lay frame, hence the title. However I did not want to do it the traditional way and considering the chassis was already bent and the cost of buying specific parts I set out on my quest. I designed a preliminary chassis in Solid Works and went on from there. Collecting Chevy spindles and rims, airbags from ebay, polybushings from airride, I then began... so I have been building a complete rolling chassis, unequal length A arms front and rear. The Chevy spindles also allowed me to have discs on all four as well so she should stop pretty well I figure. I can get into more detail later if you all would like. For know to guage ineterest here are a few pictures of my work so far. Thanks for reading.
10-28-2009 | 04:41 PM
#2
Senior Member
Back Marker
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 232
k, all about it!!!!
I have had my share of VW's from Bugs, to Squarebacks, and 3 or 4 busses and Westies. I'm sure you keep an eye on www.thesamba.com for ideas and parts.
Would love to get periodic progress reports!
I have had my share of VW's from Bugs, to Squarebacks, and 3 or 4 busses and Westies. I'm sure you keep an eye on www.thesamba.com for ideas and parts.
Would love to get periodic progress reports!
10-28-2009 | 04:59 PM
#3
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
Cool!!!!
I had a '65 Westfalia camper with the louvered side windows like yours. I had it from '71 to '76, and it made several ski trips from SoCal to Mammoth, as well as being a daily driver. I loved that bus and only sold it to a friend because I had bought a '59 356A Porsche.
I don't see many rear engined VW busses anymore, let alone pre '68 models with the sliding front side windows. And they look soooo cool slammed.
A guy in my surf club in the mid '60s had a '59 panel van (no windows) with a Porsche S90 engine. When he blew that up, he put a built small block Chevy V8 behind the front seat. It had cooling problems, so he had to run it with the side doors removed in the summer, but he sure had fun with Corvettes at stoplights.
Definitely keep us informed, as you have with your Cafe' project.
Those Vise Grip c-clamps sure are great, aren't they?
I had a '65 Westfalia camper with the louvered side windows like yours. I had it from '71 to '76, and it made several ski trips from SoCal to Mammoth, as well as being a daily driver. I loved that bus and only sold it to a friend because I had bought a '59 356A Porsche.
I don't see many rear engined VW busses anymore, let alone pre '68 models with the sliding front side windows. And they look soooo cool slammed.
A guy in my surf club in the mid '60s had a '59 panel van (no windows) with a Porsche S90 engine. When he blew that up, he put a built small block Chevy V8 behind the front seat. It had cooling problems, so he had to run it with the side doors removed in the summer, but he sure had fun with Corvettes at stoplights.
Definitely keep us informed, as you have with your Cafe' project.
Those Vise Grip c-clamps sure are great, aren't they?
Last edited by VTRsurfer; 10-28-2009 at 05:04 PM.
10-28-2009 | 05:17 PM
#4
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
10-28-2009 | 05:17 PM
#5
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,138
From: Austin, Tx
Yup, I owned a 63 ? bus. 36 hp no heater - this is a problem in Minnesnodalot. How much do you want for the interior paneling?
Good luck and please continue to update us on your project. Looks like you have the shop and skills to bring it. Please keep us in the loop.
Good luck and please continue to update us on your project. Looks like you have the shop and skills to bring it. Please keep us in the loop.
10-28-2009 | 05:27 PM
#6
Duc Hawk
SuperSport
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 691
From: Malibu's canyons
I've owned and built engines for a bunch of air cooled VWs in past too. Used to have a super low squareback with a mean engine that would get the front end off the ground on launch. I'll be watching.
Last edited by Moto Man; 10-30-2009 at 01:38 PM.
10-28-2009 | 05:36 PM
#7
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 3,451
From: San Clemente, CA
Well I think mine was a Westfalia, but it could have been a Sundial...I may have oldtimers, you know.
But it had the same closet, with a mirror inside the door, small sink above the icebox and the fold up table and rear seat that folded down to a bed. Ahhh, the old days, crusin' at 55mph max.
But it had the same closet, with a mirror inside the door, small sink above the icebox and the fold up table and rear seat that folded down to a bed. Ahhh, the old days, crusin' at 55mph max.
10-29-2009 | 02:49 PM
#9
COBB Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 292
From: NorthEast Connecticut
Now, see, I can't help cure you of this awful affliction of fabricating and tinkering if ya can't stay on task. Ya got me drooling all over myself with yer cafe project, and now this. There must be longer days in oregon than here on the East coast for you to possibly have the time.. no wait.. you have a time machine don't you?
Last edited by stebbdt; 10-29-2009 at 02:52 PM.
10-29-2009 | 03:25 PM
#10
Senior Member
MotoGP
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,132
From: Phoenix, AZ
Hmm, that looks suspiciously like: http://www.georgecomics.com/comics/2009-10-28-bfm.jpg
10-29-2009 | 07:48 PM
#12
evil man of nothing
MotoGP
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,492
From: Boynton Beach, FL
HAHAHAHAHA
That's awesome. Nice skills. Keep 'em coming! Maybe you could head in this direction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XvjVvFdMIY
Without a doubt one of the coolest vehicles I've ever seen.
That's awesome. Nice skills. Keep 'em coming! Maybe you could head in this direction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XvjVvFdMIY
Without a doubt one of the coolest vehicles I've ever seen.
Last edited by captainchaos; 10-29-2009 at 07:51 PM.
10-30-2009 | 07:28 AM
#15
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
So hopefully in a day or two I will have the airsprings mounted.
11-02-2009 | 10:18 AM
#16
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
Airsprings and shocks
So I have the air springs mounted and the shocks as well. Here are a few pictures. It is pretty much on to the rear now. I may test it with some load, maybe 1000lbs on the front, and see if she will lift it. Enjoy.
Proof she lays frame
Proof she goes up
Shocks
Proof she lays frame
Proof she goes up
Shocks
11-07-2009 | 02:00 AM
#17
Moderator
MotoGP
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 5,115
From: Gettysburg, Pa
http://www.sport-touring.net/forums/...c,46340.0.html
Here's a post from another forum I frequent. You'll want to see it.
Here's a post from another forum I frequent. You'll want to see it.
11-07-2009 | 08:18 AM
#19
Senior Member
Superstock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 416
From: North Central Indiana
Looks good. My first True custom vehicle was a 1995 S10. So I was and still consider myself a "Mini trucker." Nice fab on the frame. Good luck with your progress. What air ride set up are you using?
11-07-2009 | 07:02 PM
#21
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
...and Tim the alignment problem is so when I have a knee out I can still maximise the contact patch lol.
11-10-2009 | 07:01 PM
#24
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
Update:
So to update, I am currently designing the rear suspension. I originally was planning on a similiar design as the front, but for simplicity I am going to build the suspension much like the vanagon has. The A arm connects to part of the frame that runs width wise, so to sum it up the easiest it will be like a single sided swingarm on a motorcycle. One for each wheel. This gives me plenty of room for the axle shock and the airbags. Also the transmission needs to be stuffed in there. Once I have it all figured out I will proceed with the build and of course the pics.
11-10-2009 | 07:12 PM
#25
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
How it started
I started my build by designing the basic layout in solid works. This way I could test it structurally and also make sure there was actually enough room for the air bags among other things. As you can see the idea is there but things have changed. Just thought I would share.
Also here is the look I am going to do, if I don't change my mind by the time I am ready to paint it.
Also here is the look I am going to do, if I don't change my mind by the time I am ready to paint it.
11-10-2009 | 08:45 PM
#27
Thread Starter
2nd mouse gets the cheese
SuperBike
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,697
From: Beaverton, OR
Well, considering the rear axles are cv jointed the trailing arm itself will not have enough pressure from the axle to pull the camber out of wack. So a really sturdy trailing arm and a jointed axle fixes the camber problem. At least as far I can forsee. Is there something I am missing?
Also for the toe it will be a tied rod to the steering arm that is on the spindle. This will mount directly to the trailing arm. So the whole assembly will rotate as one piece, this should make it impossible for the toe to go out of wack under compression, again unless I am missing something.
Any imput is welcome, preferably before I start building
.
Cheers
Also for the toe it will be a tied rod to the steering arm that is on the spindle. This will mount directly to the trailing arm. So the whole assembly will rotate as one piece, this should make it impossible for the toe to go out of wack under compression, again unless I am missing something.
Any imput is welcome, preferably before I start building
.Cheers
11-10-2009 | 09:03 PM
#28
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,611
From: Belgium, WI
as it pivots up, in a typical rear trailing arm design (vw, corvette-gen3, porsche) it will swing through an arc that is not on an axis that is perpendicular to the front/rear of the vehicle. Typically these are at an angle when looked at from above. What this does is give camber change (much needed) during wheel travel, but in many cases (read most) it also induces a toe change (scary corvette handling phenomenon of "wagging" the tail under hard braking). There are ways to correct for these downfalls, and it is adding more linkages and pivots, or create an a-arm suspension. I know that this all seems trivial now, I have general concern for the change in toe/camber on a home designed suspension.
11-10-2009 | 09:14 PM
#30
Senior Member
SuperBike
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,611
From: Belgium, WI
http://www.carbibles.com/images/trailingarm.jpg
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...spension21.htm
I guess I am referring to semi trailing arm suspension in this case. If you go full trailing arm...no camber change.
Weissach axle suspension
In the mid-70s, Porsche developed this unique rear suspension for its award-winning 928. Basically it is a variant of semi-trailing arm suspension.
In any suspensions, the pivot joints must be inserted with rubber bushing to absorb noise and vibration. For conventional semi-trailing arm suspension (first row in the following picture), whenever under braking, the momentum of the car body tries to pull the car "away" from the rear suspension. Due to the elasticity of the rubber bushing, the rear wheel will toe-out. As a result, the car will oversteer.
Weissach axle was designed to eliminate this oversteer (second row in the picture). By splitting one trailing link into two pieces, with a pivot joint added between them, the oversteer under braking can be elinimated or even introduce some understeer ! This help stablizing the cornering motion. Some people call it as "passive rear-wheel steering".
http://tinypic.com/a57yh1.jpg
in this trailing arm, it has linkages that would provide camber change...
http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc046776pm.jpg/
semi trailing
http://www.autozine.org/technical_sc...spension21.htm
I guess I am referring to semi trailing arm suspension in this case. If you go full trailing arm...no camber change.
Weissach axle suspension
In the mid-70s, Porsche developed this unique rear suspension for its award-winning 928. Basically it is a variant of semi-trailing arm suspension.
In any suspensions, the pivot joints must be inserted with rubber bushing to absorb noise and vibration. For conventional semi-trailing arm suspension (first row in the following picture), whenever under braking, the momentum of the car body tries to pull the car "away" from the rear suspension. Due to the elasticity of the rubber bushing, the rear wheel will toe-out. As a result, the car will oversteer.
Weissach axle was designed to eliminate this oversteer (second row in the picture). By splitting one trailing link into two pieces, with a pivot joint added between them, the oversteer under braking can be elinimated or even introduce some understeer ! This help stablizing the cornering motion. Some people call it as "passive rear-wheel steering".
http://tinypic.com/a57yh1.jpg
in this trailing arm, it has linkages that would provide camber change...
http://img229.imageshack.us/i/dsc046776pm.jpg/
semi trailing
