Obamageddon!
09-28-2009, 09:10 AM
#511
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Location: Way Out West
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Even if I had a time machine, I'd never go back and change a thing. Might destroy the world or create a parallel universe or something. You would have had to be there the first time.
You didn't answer my question about 1942. 30 to 40 million died between '42 and '45, probably half of them civilians. That's OK.
I've read a lot about WWII. The best thing I ever read about Japan and the Pacific War was "The Rising Sun" by John Toland. Toland was empathetic to the Japanese, spent a lot of time in Japan and married a Japanese woman.
I know there were some people in our government who opposed dropping the A bombs and I know they were a small minority.
I know there were a handful of people in the Japanese government who wanted to sue for peace after the fire bombing of Tokyo. Many of them were murdered by the Japanese military.
I'm convinced that an invasion would have been necessary to force eventual surrender if the bombs hadn't been dropped. Please note that even after Hiroshima had been leveled and the Emperor and military knew it was nuclear, they refused to surrender until after Nagasaki had been razed.
The American consensus was to drop the bombs, not because they were blood thirsty animals, but because they believed it would end the war, and further loss, quicker than any other course of action. I happen to think they were right.
A world war which had killed 60 million people was ended with 2 bombs which killed 150,000.
Maybe you could have thought up a way to end it with less loss of life, but i can't imagine how. In any case, the decision they made ended the war.
The scientists' quote cracks me up. Guys who spent four years and half the treasury inventing the Bomb all of a sudden concerned about using it. And only a guilt ridden academic egghead could convince himself that any weapon could ever be abolished by 'International agreement".
Any idiot who thought that should get HIMSELF a time machine and dial it in for 2009. I'm sure he could get a job in the Obama administration!
You didn't answer my question about 1942. 30 to 40 million died between '42 and '45, probably half of them civilians. That's OK.
I've read a lot about WWII. The best thing I ever read about Japan and the Pacific War was "The Rising Sun" by John Toland. Toland was empathetic to the Japanese, spent a lot of time in Japan and married a Japanese woman.
I know there were some people in our government who opposed dropping the A bombs and I know they were a small minority.
I know there were a handful of people in the Japanese government who wanted to sue for peace after the fire bombing of Tokyo. Many of them were murdered by the Japanese military.
I'm convinced that an invasion would have been necessary to force eventual surrender if the bombs hadn't been dropped. Please note that even after Hiroshima had been leveled and the Emperor and military knew it was nuclear, they refused to surrender until after Nagasaki had been razed.
The American consensus was to drop the bombs, not because they were blood thirsty animals, but because they believed it would end the war, and further loss, quicker than any other course of action. I happen to think they were right.
A world war which had killed 60 million people was ended with 2 bombs which killed 150,000.
Maybe you could have thought up a way to end it with less loss of life, but i can't imagine how. In any case, the decision they made ended the war.
The scientists' quote cracks me up. Guys who spent four years and half the treasury inventing the Bomb all of a sudden concerned about using it. And only a guilt ridden academic egghead could convince himself that any weapon could ever be abolished by 'International agreement".
Any idiot who thought that should get HIMSELF a time machine and dial it in for 2009. I'm sure he could get a job in the Obama administration!
Last edited by RK1; 09-28-2009 at 09:27 AM.
09-28-2009, 10:54 AM
#512
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Location: San Diego, CA
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The American consensus was to drop the bombs, not because they were blood thirsty animals, but because they believed it would end the war, and further loss, quicker than any other course of action.
I guess it's American to make hasty vengeful decisions because of misdirected anger and hatred.
09-28-2009, 02:28 PM
#513
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LOL. The American consensus was to intern the "Japs" after 1941 also. The American consensus after 9/11 was to turn the middle east into glass. Pushing into Iraq on a hunch was pretty popular too at the time. So was the Patriot Act. People don't think rationally when they're heavy on emotion. And in those circumstances, the opposition is always labeled as being anti-American.
I guess it's American to make hasty vengeful decisions because of misdirected anger and hatred.
I guess it's American to make hasty vengeful decisions because of misdirected anger and hatred.
Well, I'm just trying to explain to you what i know about the war, the how and why of the decisions made by people who were doing the best they could. i think you're the one getting all judgmental and emotional about it.
You're so disgusted with the American consensus, how does such a high minded morally superior being like yourself manage to put up with it all? Might there be some place populated by philosopher kings and remorseful nuclear scientists where you'd feel more appreciated as the highly evolved human specimen that you are?
Last edited by RK1; 09-28-2009 at 03:24 PM.
09-28-2009, 10:00 PM
#514
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You didn't answer my question about 1942. 30 to 40 million died between '42 and '45, probably half of them civilians. That's OK.
As for the rest, the greedy, judgemental, and spineless rule the Earth. Its pretty clear to me, short of a revolution, where things are headed. Unfortunately the average citizen gets dumber every year. **** won't hit the fan until the productive people stand up for themselves and stop subsidizing the worthless.
Last edited by CentralCoaster; 09-28-2009 at 10:11 PM.
09-28-2009, 10:36 PM
#515
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
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As for the rest, the greedy, judgemental, and spineless rule the Earth. Its pretty clear to me, short of a revolution, where things are headed. Unfortunately the average citizen gets dumber every year. **** won't hit the fan until the productive people stand up for themselves and stop subsidizing the worthless.
09-29-2009, 06:57 AM
#516
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Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Honolulu, Hawaii USA
Posts: 427
It's all pretty clear just how UNCLEAR history can be when viewed from a rear view mirror. I'm a fan of "concept" learning as opposed to rote learning when it comes to history. Putting acts, facts, events, etc. into the perspective of the then prevailing zeitgeist always works better than reciting dates and figures from a current point of view. Simple things like the availability of education and the sophistication of communications systems in the time period being discussed, need to be taken into account.
OK. Now let's stir the pot a little more.
The Japanese citizenry and their Imperial armed forces were pretty much joined at the hip, pre mid-August 1945. Yes, as a Japanese citizen, you may have been more pro Army or pro Navy (quite a bit of rivalry between the two branches) but in the main, you stood squarely with the military/government complex. Social and cultural practices in place at the time made it so. An argument could be made that any asset to the military force you are at war with, is a legitimate target.
The internment of Japanese/American citizens here in America after Dec. 7th, 1941, was initiated for popularly acceptable reasons, managed by some pretty racist individuals, and sanctioned by Executive Order 9066. The "Executive" in charge at the time? FDR, a Democrat and pretty much an icon to current vintage dems.
OK. Now let's stir the pot a little more.
The Japanese citizenry and their Imperial armed forces were pretty much joined at the hip, pre mid-August 1945. Yes, as a Japanese citizen, you may have been more pro Army or pro Navy (quite a bit of rivalry between the two branches) but in the main, you stood squarely with the military/government complex. Social and cultural practices in place at the time made it so. An argument could be made that any asset to the military force you are at war with, is a legitimate target.
The internment of Japanese/American citizens here in America after Dec. 7th, 1941, was initiated for popularly acceptable reasons, managed by some pretty racist individuals, and sanctioned by Executive Order 9066. The "Executive" in charge at the time? FDR, a Democrat and pretty much an icon to current vintage dems.
09-29-2009, 09:47 AM
#517
I could ride in
SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, TN
Posts: 1,729
Jesse Jackson thinks you're a racist if you disagree w/ Obummer
...but gives a free ride and a job to convicted criminals...
Jesse Jackson's Newest Staff Member
Jesse Jackson has added former Chicago Democrat
Congressman Mel to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll.
Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused
in President Clinton's
last-minute forgiveness spree.
Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year
federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud,
and lies to the Federal Election Commission.
He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving
five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer.
This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had
sex with a subordinate...won clemency from a president who had
sex with a subordinate....then was hired by a clergyman who had
sex with a subordinate!
His new job?
Ready for this??
***** YOUTH COUNSELOR *****
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
CONFIRMED BY:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/reynolds.asp
Jesse Jackson's Newest Staff Member
Jesse Jackson has added former Chicago Democrat
Congressman Mel to Rainbow/PUSH Coalition's payroll.
Reynolds was among the 176 criminals excused
in President Clinton's
last-minute forgiveness spree.
Reynolds received a commutation of his six-and-a-half-year
federal sentence for 15 convictions of wire fraud, bank fraud,
and lies to the Federal Election Commission.
He is more notorious, however, for concurrently serving
five years for sleeping with an underage campaign volunteer.
This is a first in American politics: An ex-congressman who had
sex with a subordinate...won clemency from a president who had
sex with a subordinate....then was hired by a clergyman who had
sex with a subordinate!
His new job?
Ready for this??
***** YOUTH COUNSELOR *****
IS THIS A GREAT COUNTRY OR WHAT?
CONFIRMED BY:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/sexuality/reynolds.asp
09-29-2009, 09:56 AM
#518
I could ride in
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, TN
Posts: 1,729
Fixed
what a crock. Here's what the NY TIMES wrote:
'The New York Times July 10th, 2001, headline: "The Declining Terrorist Threat," two months before 9/11. "Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism. None of these beliefs are based in fact," wrote the New York Times on July 10th, 2001.'
09-29-2009, 05:39 PM
#520
Senior Member
MotoGP
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
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And the latest "good faith game" is that the commander-in-chief is deciding the strategy for Ghannie land before he grants troop level requests.
This dumb-*** couldn't win a gang-war in South Chicago - leave Iraq and Ghannie land out of it - he's reviewing the strategy? Are you kidding? They make this **** up in comic books right?
Pinch me.
This dumb-*** couldn't win a gang-war in South Chicago - leave Iraq and Ghannie land out of it - he's reviewing the strategy? Are you kidding? They make this **** up in comic books right?
Pinch me.
09-29-2009, 05:48 PM
#521
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SuperBike
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 2,455
And the latest "good faith game" is that the commander-in-chief is deciding the strategy for Ghannie land before he grants troop level requests.
This dumb-*** couldn't win a gang-war in South Chicago - leave Iraq and Ghannie land out of it - he's reviewing the strategy? Are you kidding? They make this **** up in comic books right?
Pinch me.
This dumb-*** couldn't win a gang-war in South Chicago - leave Iraq and Ghannie land out of it - he's reviewing the strategy? Are you kidding? They make this **** up in comic books right?
Pinch me.
09-29-2009, 10:56 PM
#523
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SuperSport
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 987
I have complete faith that my Commander in Chief will make a well thought out and educated choice on the matter. I'm insulted that you would imply otherwise, these are American lives were talking about here. The man wouldn't just make a decision like that if he wasn't 100% positive on what was the right direction to go.
10-01-2009, 06:54 AM
#525
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Location: Dayton, TN
Posts: 1,729
Islam is peace...blah blah blah... tell it to this Indian girl...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...with-AK47.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...with-AK47.html
10-01-2009, 07:53 AM
#526
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 312
Good and evil are only concepts that break down at a certain point and mean nothing; they define each other and on cannot exist without each other. The bellows between heaven and earth threats all things like straw dogs.
10-01-2009, 08:12 AM
#527
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SuperBike
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Dayton, TN
Posts: 1,729
Keep shoveling that ****; eventually you'll run out and hit dirt...
http://www.sodahead.com/united-state...e/blog-114923/
10-01-2009, 02:12 PM
#533
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MotoGP
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Way Out West
Posts: 2,547
And his soul has been psychedelicized!
I think that was Lao Tsu, but on second thought it might have been the Chambers Brothers.
Last edited by RK1; 10-01-2009 at 02:30 PM.
10-01-2009, 02:26 PM
#534
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Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Clemente, CA
Posts: 3,451
I think Obama could do great good for the World. If he invited Ahmadinejad to Chicago, maybe some of those Chi Town sub-humans would beat his skull in with 2 x 4s just like they did to that 16 year old honor student.
10-01-2009, 04:40 PM
#537
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10-01-2009, 07:33 PM
#538
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 4,138
Nothin' like a hometown welcome. Gee, bring on the root beer.
10-02-2009, 01:29 PM
#539
Senior Member
Superstock
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 312
I think Obama could do great good for the World. If he invited Ahmadinejad to Chicago, maybe some of those Chi Town sub-humans would beat his skull in with 2 x 4s just like they did to that 16 year old honor student.
I am not afraid (it took a lot of work to let go of my fears) anyway if you want to quote me I did say “the difference between **** and dirt is time". JIM
BTW: I bought a 2008 CBR1000RR this week and it is hell for strong, it may cause me to become afraid thus more work is at hand.
Last edited by Jim TT; 10-02-2009 at 01:43 PM.
